Help me build a funky Saison recipe?

When it comes to carbonation I would not recommend winging it, particularly with a beer that you will be investing a lot of time in making. What @pweis909 suggests above is what I would recommend as well. There is a delicate balance between well done high carbonation and gushers/bottle bombs. Definitely go with the more measured approach here.

 

One other piece of advice for @Jasonja1474 comes to mind.The bugs in this blend may break down carbohydrates that Saccharomyces strains ignore. This will add to the carbonation of beers that have several months to bottle condition. You may want to aim low with priming calculator CO2 level to compensate. My own experience is that, over time, bug beers tend to carb up to the point in which they may gush if I open them unchilled. I never had a bottle bomb, but like I suggested, I prime on the low side with them as a matter of caution. Unfortunately, I don't know of any tools for homebrewers to really dial in the carb level of beers with Brett.

 

As @OddNotion said, don't wing it. I would say never wing priming sugar.

If you want to use sugar cubes, you can determine what they'll do for you using carbonation calculators like the one @pweis909 linked. Assuming you're using Domino Dots (which weigh about 2.3 grams each), 12 oz bottles, and residual CO2 from a 68F fermentation, one dot per bottle would get you about 2.5 volumes of CO2. Two dots per bottle would get you about 4.1 volumes of CO2, which is really too high for most styles and possibly dangerous for typical bottles.

 

There is a priming calculator on Brewers Friend. There’s also a spreadsheet you can find online for blending and packaging aged beer.

You’re going to need to re-yeast as well. Champagne yeast is the easiest option.

I would never use normal bottles with mixed ferm beers. Heavy glass is a must.

If there is no diastaticus Sacch present, at least in my personal experience, Brett won’t take the beer much below 1.004.

 

@Jasonja1474 the conversation around carbonation reminded me of one of your posts in another thread.

Inquiring purely in the interest of safety:
Is the "already carbed" part a reference to the residual CO2 that's a byproduct of primary fermentation? Or maybe it's a reference to the minimal amount of CO2 that might have been picked up by the beer during a pressure transfer? Or .....??

If you did in fact force carbonate the beer prior to bottling (which it doesn't really sound like you did), consider keeping them not only in the garage but also in a sturdy, covered, non-absorbent container.

All my bottled beer spends at least the 1st two weeks of their life that way. I might be a little OCD in that, but I figure better safe than charded in case something was off.

 

20 PSI at 68F would give you a hair over 2 volumes of CO2 right off the bat. If you're going to continue fermenting under that kind of pressure (and why?), you should really get familiar with carbonation calculations, or at least figure out how to bend the calculators out there to your will to figure out how much sugar to add when bottling. By default, the calculations assume a pretty low level of residual CO2.

 

Ah, ok, that's more like 1.4 volumes then. About fermenting under high-ish pressures...it suppresses esters, which can be good or bad. But it also decreases yeast viability and performance in general. That said, there are certainly brewers (mostly commercial) that ferment under high pressures with specific strategies in mind.

 

To determine (or at least get in the ballpark of) the projected vols CO2, would it be as simple as adding those two together (2.5 + 1.4)?

 

@Jasonja1474 in response to your questions to my posts, I think others have covered them pretty well.

Personally, I am of the opinion that ALL saison yeasts are diasticus strains (just my opinion based on personal experience, not scientifically backed, I know, I know), and I wait until gravity has been stable two weeks before dry hopping (which I usually do with saisons), and then bottling. I haven't found a need to re-yeast, especially if using Brett, but sometimes it does take a little longer to carbonate than I'd like. I've only had one that failed to carbonate, but it finished at over 15% ABV, and there was still a little "silent but deadly fart" sound when I cracked the cap (sorry, best way I can describe it).

Heavy glass bottles that can take the pressure and accept a standard 27mm cap are expensive and can be tough to come by, but are worth the investment. Way cheaper than buying beers that come in them and drinking them up, although less fun.

I like to pitch Brett at bottling. Doing this allows me to have an ever-evolving beer; brightly hoppy at first and then more funky as time goes on. Proper bottles are a must, as is making sure that the diasticus yeast is done.

 

Not quite. Both of those have residual CO2 from fermentation baked in.

One way to do it would be to take the 1.4 volumes (from the 90F fermentation at 20 PSI) and put that 1.4 volumes into the calculator (with a batch size of 12 ounces (or 0.09375‬ galons)), noting the amount of sugar (sugar "equivalent" in this case, since it won't actually be physically added) that the calculator says you would have needed to get the 1.4 volumes. Call that the baseline.

Then tweak the CO2 volumes target until the resulting sugar requirement is 2.3 grams more than the previously noted baseline. The new CO2 volumes would be the estimate.

 

I’ll add and echo a few things.

I would use the aged hops at the beginning and 15-10 min hot side. Not sure what dry hopping would bring with them, I’ve never heard of anyone trying that, but would be interesting to experiment with.

I would def add additional Brett in primary for funk. The blackberry dregs would work well.

I’d go lighter with the Palisade dry hop. I’m personally not a huge fan of dry hopping saisons like IPA’s since it masks a lot of the yeast character. I’m not sure if you mentioned your batch size, but I typically dry hop my 1 gal batch saison’s with .30-.40 oz. Enough to boost the aroma and add a little extra complexity.

I’d add a boiled oak spiral soaked in white wine during primary, and let it sit 2-3 month’s. Most of my mixed ferm stuff takes a solid 4-6 months in the bottle to clean up and come together. Good luck and send me a bottle!

 

If you extrapolate that to a 5gal batch, that's 2oz. He has 2oz Palisade pellets and 1oz Palisade cryo hops. Palisade isn't exceptionally potent, so I think he should be alright, especially since there will be next to no flavor from the aged hops.

 

I bottle my beer in the quart bottles from Corona, Pacifico, Victoria brands. I like my beer with lots of bubbles 3.3 volumes and up. Have never had any problems with these bottles and I like the beer that comes with them. Quart of Corona goes for about 3.75 and I repurpose the bottle over and over, win win all the way around.