German / Imported Märzens

Interesting question. If you've not ventured much outside of an majority English speaking area, it is jarring to notice all the English in advertisements. I've lived in Japan, Turkey, Holland & Germany, and of course the USA, and this is a general trend. For example, in Japan, if you want coffee, you ask for ホトコヘ (Hotto Kohe) or エイスコヘ (ice Kohe).　In Germany at least, English in advertising give a feeling of being cool, modern, hip, intelligent, well basically any positive descriptor you could come up with. Why? Hollywood & the music industry are extremely pervasive. Nonetheless, even where an German word would suffice, often an English word is used. For example, Germans could use Beschreschung, but instead use Meeting, all for the above reasons. Another example I find absolutely hilarious is the product Mr. Proper, which is Mr. Clean in the U.S. As an English teacher at the business level, I was amazed but not surprised that not one of my students knew the meaning of proper, and the initial market launch was in the 1960s!


Now to address Craft Bier specifically. There isn't a word that translates in German to craft except Manufaktur or handwerklich, both of which are unwieldy and don't capture the same meaning for beer, so Germans adopted the word craft though almost no one knows what it means until it is explained in a lengthy paragraph. Kraft = power/energy in German, and due to the high ABVs of many IPAs, mixes the meaning of Craft. Craft beer is a completely foreign concept for Germans, though you could see the small brewers in Bavaria, et al, as "craft," in Germany they're considered "traditional." Craft Bier is for rebels, hipsters (both unfortunately) and people willing to go out their cultural comfort zone.

I hope this made some sense, but the cultural tentacles of America are huge and all pervasive around the world, whether that's a good or bad thing is another matter.

 

Actually, Jack, this isn't true. By German law, the best buy date is the date the product will cease having the same quality it had when it left the production facility. It's kind of like a guarantee. (I've watched enough German consumer TV shows to have that memorized.) Thus beer best by dates are a guess at best. Whether they'll be "good" isn't the issue. Beer aging might be for the better or for the worse, but the key by German law is whether it will be "different" as intended under normal storing/shelf conditions, and that's what you see on the bottles.

 

I'm sorry if anyone was offended. But as said before, different aspects of beer deteriorate on different time scales. Flavor vs. Aroma dissipate or deteriorate differently and under different time scales, so a malt-forward beer like a Märzen will likely at 12 months be much closer to the manufacturer's original product than an IPA. You're right, alcohol is a preservative, so higher ABVs can be aged longer, but a Märzen is already (should be) slightly higher anyway by design, usually at 5.5 to 6%. Also, the longer a beer has been out of its producer's control, the more possibility bad things can happen to it, i.e oxidation, being heat or light struck. My whole point was that consumers should be a little less wary of age, at least in theory till around 12 months for beers stored in optimal conditions, for beers that derive their enjoyment due to cooked-in flavors rather than those that aroma-forward. Instead, they should demand to know under what storage conditions the beer was subjected before hitting the shelf.

 

No worries. I wasn't actually offended. But I can tell a difference before 12 months with Marzons and other German beers with a 12 month best buy. I think most people here can. Blind taste tests could be done to prove it.

They are lying to you and/or technically breaking the law then.

 

It made total sense. Some of what you said could be assumed by someone in the US, but assumptions are only that and I was curious to get your take on it. Thank you for taking the time to provide it. Regarding beer, it works in the other direction too. In the US, beer enthusiasts don't think twice about an American brewer called Bierstadt Lagerhaus putting out a "Helles." Similar to the "craft brewing - new world double IPA" in one of your pics, the language used sends a signal to consumers regarding feelings of authenticity.

 

for people without a calculator who aren't readily conversant in Celsius, 60 degrees celsius is 140 degrees F.
50 degrees C = 122F
40C = 104F
30C = 86F
20C = 68F

At 20C the curve looks to be somewhere between 85-90 days. Most liquor stores in my area tend to have warm storage on the dock between 70-80 degrees F (in summer) where you might get staling in as little as 10 days, and cold storage between 40-50 degrees F, which would be about 4.5 C to 10 C. And that point on the curve looks to be between 230 and 250 days.

I'm just elaborating on this so boringly because cold storage is ENORMOUSLY important. Try to patronize stores where you know they get the deliveries into the generous cooler space as quickly as humanly possible...some do, some let things sit on the room temperature (or warmer) back room because they don't have extensive refrigerated space. I avoid places with huge stack displays of beer out on the floor, at room temperature. I won't say I never buy a room temperature beer, but I very very rarely buy a room temperature IPA...

 

If I did this I would likely never buy beer. While my local beer retailers have some beer refrigerators the vast majority of their beers are out on wooden shelves or on the floor at 'room' temperature. And I used single quotes with 'room' since many of the Retail Beer Distributors in Pennsylvania are not air conditioned so those beers are much warmer than 70 degrees F right now.

I agree with you that cold storage is best but for me solely purchasing cold beer is not a realistic option.

Cheers!

 

Yeah, we are no going to agree here. @bsp77 already provided the answer to you on this topic.

Cheers!

 

I would argue Kolsch, Altbier, and Rauchbier are as import as an IPA regarding freshness. I've been to Germany a few times, so I can speak to styles such as Helles and Pils, but not those three. But in my experience of having fresher local examples against one's that are old, this holds up for those three former styles I mentioned.

There are those that have had Kolsch, Altbier, and Rauchbier directly from the source and can comment on the utter importance of super fresh beers with these styles. I could be wrong, but I'll let them chime in.

I want to say I've heard this even with Hefeweizens as well.

@Domingo @steveh

And overall I do agree with your post and sentiments. Some styles should be consumed super fresh, others a few months is likely ok. I just don't agree that an IPA is the ONLY style that should be consumed fresh, and the ONLY style that falls off considerably after a few months.

 

Are you saying all German brewers are breaking the law? That’s absurd. According to Wikipedia, “It specifies the date by which a foodcan be consumed if it is properly stored (in particular if the storage temperature specified in connection with the best- before date) is observed without any significant loss of taste and quality as well as a health risk.” Whether that works with beer is a different matter, but it says “it’s at the discretion of the manufacturer.” I’ve talked to few craft brewers here and this rule drives them nuts. Basically it’s a good faith effort on the brewers part.

 

The Märzen that has a special place in my heart is the one above (pic from a few days ago), but the above beer isn't really what the intent of this thread was about since it isn't a Festbier.

My favorite Festbier is the Hofbräuhaus Traunstein "Oktoberfest" - the weird 6.3% ABV one. For what I can get bottled or canned in the US, my favorite is the Hofbräuhaus München Oktoberfestbier. The thing is, those two beers also aren't the greatest answer for the thread because they aren't comfortable embodiments of Märzen.

Contrary to what is constantly said, this isn't because of color... it's because of strength. I'm a broken record, but Märzen and Festbier aren't two opposing styles separated by color. Similar to @Jacobier10 's post below, the two Festbiers I mentioned feel more like the middle ground at the borders between Märzen and Bock. It's no coincidence that these are the two Festbiers I really like.

A big yes to the above regarding Ayinger. Jahrhundert is one of my favorites when I'm in the mood for something close to a Märzen. If someone wants to know what it might be like if Ayinger producer a paler Festbier, look here.

 

You were the one who said it was German law. But what is above says "significant" and also mentions health risks. So this means that there is degradation but maybe not considered "significant". And what is "significant"? Tastes terrible maybe? The bottom line is that many of is CAN taste a difference before 12 months, so not sure why you are arguing.

 

Why isn't that true? That's how the Germans classify their beers.

 

Hellerbock is just a type of Bock. You could add Doppelbock at the end.

 

Convention. The distinction between Lagerbier and Export has been diminished.

 

This is specifically what I disagree with: "Because Märzen is just a strength classification".

I realize that there is truth for the labeling of Export and Bock, but there is no evidence to suggest that Marzen is based on gravity alone. And I can find examples of Exports and Marzens with the same gravity. And where does Festbier fit in that? They are usually higher alcohol than Marzens, and the new Bitburger one (which is non Bavaria) is higher than 13 plato.

And there are countless articles explaining the shift in Bavarian brewing from Marzens to Festbier over the last few decades, but nothing I can find stating that Marzens is based on gravity alone. I would concede that there may be some historical context to Marzens being defined by a certain gravity, but modern usage has changed that if that is the case. And I would also like to see the evidence, as I searched.

 

Please let me know what you think of this year's version. My last purchase was four bottles of the 500 ml size. I dropped quite a bit of money on this purchase (Ayinger beers are highly priced in PA) and all of those beers tasted old/stale (and yes they were brewed in that year).

Cheers!

 

We are 100% in agreement here about the Hofbräuhaus München Oktoberfestbier. Here is a direct quote from my review: