Brewer’s Perspective: West Coast Haze

QC issues with low to zero carbonation in some of the From the Wood beers, and Blue Dot has been a disaster on tap and in bottles/cans the last few years.

As one brewer told me once, “Alan is a chef, he’s not a scientist.”

 

Sounds very much like Surly Axe Man.

 

Not a brewery that folks seek out, but Peabody Heights' Bizarre Ride is along these lines.

 

Sounds a little like the Brut IPAs (which varied a lot).

 

I feel like NE IPA has become more of a caricature of what was originally intended. The focus became softness, haziness, and being juicy at the expense of being concerned about taste. Everything got dialed up to 11. The beers being described here have always been available, they just were overshadowed by the focus on which beers were the most hazy, soft, and juicy. There are balanced IPA's that are a bit hazy, hop forward, bitter but not overpoweringly bitter, etc.. I think sanity is coming back a bit, I don't think we'll see NE IPA's disappear but perhaps we'll see a bit more balance.

 

I don't. I find many of Cellarmaker offerings as a hybrid, that still embraces mild-moderate bitterness but with elements of a softer fuller mouthfeel.

A modern WCIPA for my preferences is still clear beer with moderate bitterness but using more modern hop varieties. Tend to be more dynamic in aroma and flavor profile, not just pine and citrus, but an addition of tropical fruit/juicy aspects. And that's even ignoring the mouthfeel aspects. But obviously this is just my perspective.

 

This style sounds like what every wannabe Treehouse copycat brewer made in their initial attempts at an NEIPA. I don't think it should have its own style and it certainly shouldn't be attributed to the West Coast.

 

Yes from my perspective in the earliest days of NEIPA as a term gaining traction, the usage was as much about region as any concrete set of characteristics besides some degree of haze, be it slight or completely opaque. As I recall, breweries in the region making slightly hazy looking IPAs with Chico akin to the ones in the article like Maine, Lawson's, NEBCO (especially before they started biofining), and Bissell pre-yeast change were regularly grouped with Hill, The Alchemist, Tree, Trillium, etc.

Hell before NEIPA became a thing, there was a brief effort to make VIPA a style and group Lawson's with the other big two Vermont breweries, despite the fact that some people find Lawson's too clear-looking/too west coast/too "old school" these days (then again, some people make the exact same complaints about the flavor profile of Alchemist and Hill's IPA so maybe the term deserves a comeback ).

 

I liked fresh Modus back in the day, fresh Knee Deep, Hop Rod Rye, Moylans etc. I’m all in for a hazy hoppy WC ipa, don’t leave out the hops. I never liked Green Flash, perhaps it was before I knew about aged beers, same with Sculpin, I always thought it completely over rated, an exception was Grapefruit Sculpin, which I liked. I also like to mix Habanero Sculpin with Grapefruit Sculpin, like 3/4 Grapefruit. Knee Deep is back on the shelf in Greensboro btw.

 

Ya that's fair. I definitely see the line getting hazier (). Sorry

But I do think it's kind of a matter of personally deciding how much softness and juiciness you'll accept before a beer leaves the wcipa camp.

 

WCIPA was primarily defined primarily by its bitterness.

There were always examples that were hazy, and even juicy to an extent, especially as the substyle evolved.

I don't see anything particularly unique to what the OP describes. It has been done already, both at the beginning of what became the NEIPAs and as brewers such as Surly used Citra and other newer hops in what is basically a WCIPA (Axe Man).

Having perceived bitterness below 60 IBU (and some would say below 70), it is questionable that it is still WC.

WCIPA is a substyle of AIPA; there are many AIPAs that are not WC.

 

@purephase Do you feel the finings affected NEBCO beers? That was around 2016?

 

FWIW I have consistently expressed my opinion that the hoppy beers from Hill Farmstead, The Alchemist, and Lawsons were not ‘NEIPA’/Juicy & Hazy IPAs. Below is something I posted in the past:

“I used the term of "spectrum" in the below that I have posted numerous times in BA threads:

In my opinion the beers of The Alchemist (e.g., Heady Topper) are not so called 'NE' style IPAs. I have had Heady Topper on multiple occasions and those beers were neither turbid/murky/opaque or had a smooth/velvety mouthfeel. In past BA threads I discussed:

“In my eyes if West Coast style is one side of the rainbow and Trillium/Tree House is the other side, Alchemist/Lawson's/Hill Farmstead are the best of both worlds.”

This pretty much mirrors my thoughts on the ‘spectrum’ of American style IPAs. I enjoy drinking West Coast style IPAs (e.g., FW Union Jack) and I enjoy drinking the so called “NE” style IPAs but for me the ‘sweet spot’ are the hoppy beers of Hill Farmstead (and The Alchemist).”

Having discussed the above, I am personally not an advocate for creating a substyle of Vermont IPA.

Cheers!

 

I believe it was early 2015. I'm in the minority of my friends on this, but I don't think the finings affected NEBCO's beer nearly as much as it affected the perception of them. I've never found NEBCO especially juicy at any point and their beers have always had a good amount of bite. Nonetheless as I'm sure you recall, there were complaints here and elsewhere when the beer started coming out clearer and suggestions that it wasn't as juicy as it used to be. The beer that's varied the most from my original memory of it is Coriolis, but I was always inclined to attribute that to how variable the quality of Nelson hops can be more so than the use of finings or any other process change.

Personally I've felt for years that just as a number of drinkers were resistant to hazy IPAs as a rule and complained that the appearance of haze automatically indicated unfinished beer, there's also been a number of newer NEIPA fans who complain that any move towards clarity simply must indicate lack of body or flavor intensity.

 

I’ve probably said this before, and I apologize if it’s old news. The IPA’s from SARA all have a haze to them of varying degrees.
These are said to be unfiltered, which doesn’t really denounce a style to me.

 

I just can’t wrap my head around why people want to define style characteristics or guidelines for styles anymore.

 

Gottta talk about something

 

I'm interested in hearing you elaborate on this.

As a discussion board for people who enjoy beer, why wouldn't this be a topic of frequent conversation?

Anymore? I infer from this that you perceive something has changed, as in it used to be a good topic, but not anymore.

 

To me they're not Brut IPAs at all. I think the poster you are responding to here overstates the absence of bitterness and the dryness. To me they're clear to slightly hazy (not opaque), with very bright & juicy new school hop flavors, with more bitterness (to my palate, ymmv) than the poster you're responding to thinks, and while certainly a) fully attenuated and b) containing no really noticeable unfermented sugars, they're not as (unpleasantly, to me) dry as the Bruts were. To me they are sort of between the Barley Brown/Comrade/Melvin NWIPA @SFACRKnight was talking about and the new school WCIPAs Connor Casey was referencing...

Highly recommend both beers mentioned. Tunnel of Trees was a revelation to me this summer (been around for awhile but it took me a WAY longer time to find, given that the brewery's about 3 miles from my house, than it should have, maybe because I've always focused on their farmhouse, mixed, and spontaneous stuff) and Show No Mercy follows in its footsteps.

 

https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/growing-trend-the-california-new-england-ipa.439017/