Trading Updates (December 2020)

Ya I definitely understand your frustration, I'd imagine there are a not insignificant number of people who share your predicament. I can just comment on my perspective, which is that @Todd and the decision making team seem to feel that the current level of abuse and the way its handled isn't sustainable. I don't know why, not my prerogative to know or decide. The current solution is to create some modest barriers of involvement to address the issue, they know this solution will negatively impact some active and positive members of the trading community. The conclusion is that the proposed hurdles are the right balance to try out.

I'll definitely encourage you to continue to let @Todd know your position and offer any more solutions you come up with. Maybe some kind of one time 50 karma bump for anyone with 100% positive feedback and X number of trades when the changes go live?

 

In truth, I think BA already has a great mechanism in place with the ability to see someone's trade history. That doesn't exist on other trading platforms and is one of the reasons I prefer to trade on here. I don't think any other metric tells someone about the trustworthiness of another trader than their trade history. If the goal is discourage unscrupulous trading, then I think any changes should fixate on reinforcing trade history. Adding karma into the mix is certainly well intentioned but I don't think it truly says anything about someone's trade credibility.

 

I think that's where you are getting off track a bit. The changes are not to discourage unscrupulous trading. The changes are to discourage selling, which @Todd has clearly stated a few times.

It's to prevent people who aren't interested in the community, but just want the ability to DM someone by saying "Hey, I see you are ISO this beer and I'll sell it to you instead." Or someone DMing and saying "Hey, I see you have this beer FT and I'll buy it off you instead." The user get banned and then sets up a new account and starts the process all over again. That kind of stuff, which he has said is becoming more and more of an issue.

So adding a little work to get the ability to view the trade boards seems to be a good experiment to see if these people put in the extra time and effort or not. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but Todd seems pretty open to other ideas as well.

 

Which is against the rules. This is just going in circles now.

 

I’m a little confused at where you’re getting confused on this.

the point of using karma doesn’t mean. High karma = great trader. It means that you’re dedicated enough to the site to put in the work it takes to be able to trade.

Meaning if I’m just creating a burner account to sell or buy then I’m not going to put in 1 month of work just to do that 1 or so times and get banned and do that again. As from what Ive read here is there are easier ways of doing that (I’m not involved in Spacebook or instacrackers).

thus by using karma and making it take longer it cuts down on people trying to do that. And as Todd mentioned in the first thread in trading makes his job easier as he is the only one with banning privileges.

Also it is well understood that if you are a part of a community or feel a part of the community you’re less likely to cause harm or take negative actions to said community. And thus by making it karma points it makes you become part of the community and therefore decreases the chance that you’re just there for the wrong reasons.

 

If someone wires money to somebody with zero trade history, getting burned is on them. Again, buying/selling is against the rules. Incorporating karma just raises a barrier to trading that impacts everyone for the sake of protecting a few people from their own stupidity.

 

Well we are circling back because no one has provided a good answer why rules are being levied to protect people from the pitfalls of their own dumb behavior.

 

It’s about limiting/eliminating the perpetrators of this behavior. Yes, everyone should do their due diligence when trading with anyone, but if you make the barriers “harder” it will likely/hopefully limit this from being a part of the trade forums.

People that want to take advantage of others look for the easy path. If they have to put in even a little work to get there, it’s discouraging. They’ll go elsewhere-Facebook, Instagram.

 

No doubt. I fully agree they'll go elsewhere and that's precisely where I see most of this behavior happen already; not here.

 

emphasis on good.

 

Honestly, the amount of pushback you're exerting here is only reinforcing the fact that even a measly 50 karma points is an insurmountable hill for certain personalities to even bother with, which IMO are the types of personalities most likely trying to pop in here for a quick buck. It even appears to be a non-starter for someone so invested in the community they post 12 times in a 2 page thread. Heck, you may accumulate enough posts and likes here alone to the reach the requisite karma in spite of your obstinance.

 

You know it’s bad when @Sabtos is the one using logic and reason

All jokes aside, what I think @mac_tre isnt understanding about the rules, is that despite being in place, they are still being broken. This change has nothing to do with credibility as a trader but as a deterrent to those who want to abuse the site for their own personal gain. No one wants to deal with shitlords sending unsolicited messages about buying/selling bottles instead of following the proper protocol laid out when you(they) AGREE to the T&C’s to be a part of the trading community.

As pointed out, you had 30 karma points when you first started participating in this thread. You only needed 20 more points to be granted access again and you’re fighting it this much, imagine what 50 karma points will do to someone that has no interest in being a part of the community and only wants to break the rules for monetary gain...