Revisiting Auctions: Keep or Ban 'em?

After reading all the posts I say just allow them.

People don't have to agree to a trade if they don't like what they have to give up.

I assume the auction type trade would only pertaining to a small group of select beers.

Banning them may force you to have more moderation, more rules, more effort. I dont want to see a list or a vague post seem like a auction. If someone post a trade and then drives up the asking price I think most would back out because of the new demands. If a trade is agreed upon and then the price goes up then maybe that can be reported/bad trade forum.

 

from above sounds to me like an auction would be when specific beer(s) are offered for non-specific beers with the trader deciding on the offer they like best. would it be an auction if it was ISO: Wants?

don't trade much these days but when i do it's usually when i acquire some special stuff, locally or through travel, that i think might get me some highly rated stuff i have not tried. i don't reference my Wants, because i don't think anyone would bother checking them, and usually just ISO a few desired breweries or particular styles.

if auctions are allowed i think it would be fun to see the final deal posted. not that i would ever be able to score a major whale but interesting to know what it takes in case i get lucky.

 

Thankfully, there are plenty of resources out there for new traders to learn about what beers are highly-regarded and which they might like so that they can nail down some wants instead of just fishing for the "best" trade via a silent auction. I would recommend "BeerAdvocate" as one such resource, but many others exist for this purpose!

 

Can someone explain how auctions do this? I might change my mind if I understood that point.

As it is, I voted to keep them. Banning them creates more work for moderators. And as others have noted creates more uncertainty for traders about where the line is, that uncertainty seems like it would be a bigger disincentive to posting trades here than the presence of auctions.

It also seems to me like one legitimate approach to trading, if you don't like the style of trading don't engage that trader. If the community generally doesn't like auctions and they don't generally get much traction then they will go away.

I guess I just fail to see the harm and adding more rules and more work for the mod team to curb a behavior that seems like its just something that annoys some people doesn't sound like a sustainable path. I'm open to being convinced otherwise

 

I think if there are a few guidelines that are followed auctions really are not that big of a deal.

 

I don't like auctions, but it either requires very clear rules on all trade posts or depending on members to report them. Either way there's always a grey area and both take a lot of time to enforce.

A good first step would be to invite people to post the outcome when they close a trade.

 

It should definitely have a set time. either 12 or 24 hours.
All communication needs to be on the Auction post
Whenever an offer is put up the User who started the auction needs to state if they like that offer the best.

So say there is a post for KBBS up for grabs, The first offer is- a BBT3 + BA Damon.
Then if someone else posts say For Gabe + Clover B1+ a DBBCBS. The auction creator needs to state if the second offer beats the first offer.

Just an idea, I'm not good with putting words into text.

 

Certainly.

Auctioneer Alex has Beer X and holds an auction. 10 trades for this beer have already closed for Beer X and the market has determined that it’s worth about 2 Beer Y. Alex also thinks his beer is worth 2 Beer Y, but wants to go fishing just in case.

In Alex’s auction, many people bid around 2 Beer Y. But Bob really, really wants Beer X and bids 5 Beer Y. Going forward, Beer X is “worth” 5 Beer Y even though he agreed it was worth 2, and even though all the other bidders save for an outlier agreed it was worth 2.

The auction format allowed an outlier to determine the market because Alex could fish for an outlier instead of relying on the larger marketplace. A marketplace that discourages auctions instead bases value more closely on supply and demand instead of outliers.

What’s so terrible about this, you might wonder? Alex got more than what he wanted, and the buyer got Beer X?... that’s true, in a vacuum! But the negative externality here is the many people who would have had a shot at the beer if the value was instead tied to supply and demand, as well as the impact this has in the aggregate.

Certainly not the end of the world if BA was to allow/encourage this activity (obviously), but I hope that helps to explain why some have an aversion towards auctions (I’m sure I’m missing something, too).

 

Apologizes if this has already been stated, but if auctions continue to be allowed would it make sense to have a separate forum for auctions? That way you can easily find auctions if you are so inclined (or avoid completely). It would also be useful to encourage the identification of an auction trade in the Completed Trades forum.

I don't think it makes sense to require all offers/discussion about the auction to be conducted in the thread since PMs will always be an option, or have a time limit on them for the same reason. Maybe there would be a way enforce those rules but it seems like it would be a lot of development work or require a lot of effort from the mods.

 

I see the concept but a single trade doesn't make a value, in your example that beer was worth 5 beer Y to Bob. But that doesn't mean that it will be worth that to anyone else.

Ultimately, if you're hunting for whales you're going to have to deal with a somewhat dynamic market. If a whole bunch of people will give up 5x beer Y for beer X , even if it used to trade for fewer, that just looks like the movement of the market

 

Why not?
There would be full transparency on the negotiations and it would help set public baseline “values” for certain beers.
It would be harder to string someone along while waiting for a better offer and past auctions would allow both sides to set reasonable expectations as to the value of what they have to offer.

 

I agree. Which is why I noted that the effects of this practice in the aggregate would change the marketplace overall, not a singular trade. Keep in mind also that the beers being auctioned will likely be in very short supply and therefore a few auctions are far more likely to substantially impact the marketplace.

Again, I agree about a "dynamic market." Allowing and encouraging auctions makes that marketplace much, much more "dynamic" by allowing outliers to substantially impact value rather than having it adhere closer to supply/demand.

Yes, it is the movement of a market that allows/encourages auctions -- I'm not suggesting it isn't. My point is that this new market is farther removed from supply/demand and therefore more "artificial" in my estimation (i.e. inflated by the demand of outliers rather than the collective demand).

Please note that in my example Alex initially valued his own beer X at 2Y. Other bidders valued beer X at 2Y. He received offers of 2Y for his beer. Normally, this would have closed and the value would have been based on supply/demand... but an auction allowed him to fish for an outlier, and the market is then disproportionately based on that outlier, now.

You certainly don't have to agree, but I do hope that this better explains the issue for you that some have with auctions!

 

I do understand better and I don't agree Thanks for explaining

 

So I'm selling my car, KBB values it at $10000.00. But Bob has always wanted the exact same car that I'm selling. Bob offers me $12000.00 for it instead. So I'm obligated to sell it for 10K because the "market value" says so? Just because one person is willing to go above and beyond doesn't mean someone else will. Certain bottles hold different value to others, and they are willing to go above its value to obtain it.