Most “Historical-Tasting” AAL?

It's a good question. Here are a couple of interesting (I thought) examples:

First is from a 1907 book about the history of brewing in Rochester.

Reading these excerpts today I think most beer interested people would draw an immediate association between the term lager beer and bottom fermentation, not being aware of the fact that in Bavaria and Austria at the time schenkbier was also bottom fermented. So was Kondolf using a bottom fermenting yeast for brewing schenkbier? I would expect as much, especially as he brewed only in the wintertime when schenkbier was brewed also in Bavaria, it being even called winter beer there.

Another example from One Hundred Years of Brewing about Charles Engel, later of Engel & Wolf:

Did Engel brew with two different yeasts I wonder.

And lastly an excerpt from The New international encyclopaedia from 1902

To me this suggests what happened: an established Anglo-American term, common beer, becomes applied to the new beer, schenkbier, for purposes of selling or presenting the beer to non German speakers, while amongst themselves the brewers still called the beer by the German name (in those cases when they were actually brewing bottom fermented schenkbier that is), I also suspect that among German speaking immigrant beer drinkers the term schenkbier lived on for some time, again when it was actually schenkbier, and that common beer would have been used by English speakers or for English speakers.

One can compare this to Sweden where lager beer was also introduced in the 1840s (originally known as Bavarian beer, later as lager beer) and after some time a version of schenkbier came to be brewed by alot of breweries, a few breweries called it skänköl, a direct translation from German, but much more common became the term lagerdricka. Dricka was a Swedish word meaing a beverage of some kind, but particularly used for weaker beers (dricka vs öl). So Swedish brewers combined the word lager with the word dricka and could thus communicate that this was a weaker beer to drinkers not familiar with the difference between lager and schenkbier. It was then replicated with Pilsner in the form of Pilsnerdricka.

If common beer in the US was commonly understood to mean a lower gravity, short aged/unaged beer (as opposed to ale) then that name seems like it would be a good choice to use in effectively communicating the general properties of the beer to non German speakers. Particularly if the product made up a significant portion of sales as schenkbier did in Bavaria (not to mention Austria Hungary).

 

Patrik, that is a very good question.

There are differing 'stories' about when lager yeast and lager brewing first came to America. I recently posted in another thread:



And in that thread I commented: "As to when Yuengling Brewery first obtained some lager yeast I am uncertain."

https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...print-of-yuengling-beers.647011/#post-7150328

If we accept that it was John Wagner who first brought a lager yeast strain to America in 1840 then we know with certainty that the beers brewed prior to 1840 (e.g., Yuengling beers brewed in 1829 (and the following decade) were brewed with ale yeast strains. What was the next brewery that had the lager yeast strain after the John Wagner brewery? Did John Wagner share his lager yeast with these subsequent lager brewers? How long did this take for his lager yeast to be widely available? Was there a second immigrant brewer that brought lager yeast to America?

Does any of the material that you have read address any of those topics above?

Cheers!

 

As per Wolf (of Engel and Wolf) in the same article a George Manger "at this time" (speaking of when Wagner began his brewing) "was given some of wagner's yeast" and started his own brewery. Another brewer in Pittsburgh, Straub, who was brewing top fermented common beer, had heard about the lager beer brewed in Philadelphia and "with a great deal of trouble" "secured a small lot of untergahr yeast per canal, from Philadelphia and commenced brewing lager beer in January or February of 1849."

Untergärung/untergährung/untergähr was a term used for bottom fermentation/yeast (as opposed to obergär, or obergärung), another term used for bottom fermenting yeast was unterzeug (as opposed to oberzeug).

Leaving the question of who was first to brew with a bottom fermenting yeast I don't think it's particularly controversial to claim that by the late 1840s, and certainly by the 1850s, there was quite a few lager beer breweries starting and later that were in operation, but where they all got their yeast from is anyone's guess. The question that interests me here is to what degree US lager beer brewers supplemented the brewing of lager with the brewing of schenkbier. Clearly some schenkbier was being made but did it make up a significant portion of production and sales, forgotten over time by non German speakers, supplanted entirely by lager beer which becomes synonymous with bottom fermentation and even the yeast itself.

 

Maybe they stole it?

Rushmark, apparently, was Wagner's brother-in-law.

Some sources say Manger was a partner with Charles Psotta (sometimes "Pesota", who was brother-in-law of the famous Phila. brewer, Louis Bergdoll). Some kegs of the Manger/Psotta lager even made it to nearby Baltimore by 1845 and, curiously Baltimore's first lager brewer was a "George Rosmarck" - so, possibly the thief/Wagner b-i-l noted above in the Philadelphia Public Ledger article?

Charles Wolf, who owned a Philadelphia sugar refinery claimed, too, that Manger was an employee of his, as was Charles Engel, another "practical brewer" from Bavaria and childhood friend of Wolf. Engel brewed a lager beer with Wolf in his sugar house in 1844 "for private consumption" by Wolf's friends, employees and German customers.

Engel started a small brewery in Lewisburg in 1844 which burnt down the same year, but brewed only "ale and schenk-bier" (perhaps because of the time of the partial year it was opened?). Later that year, Engel and Wolf formed a brewing company and built a brewery (including "the first vault built for the storage of lager beer") and distillery on Dillwyn Street. Some consider this the first "commercial lager brewery" in the US, terming the earlier ones by Wagner and Manger "private" breweries.

Engel, of course, later formed another famous Phila. brewery, Bergner and Engel.

 

I wonder how John Wagner 'acquired' the yeast he brought from Europe!?!

Cheers!

 

"Wagner brought the first lager beer yeast to this country from a brewery in Bavaria in which he had been brewmaster."
---100 Years of Brewing (1903)

Hey, who doesn't take stuff from their place of work? I still use pencils (the erasers are all dried out, tho') that have the name of the corporation my mother retired from in the 1980s, as well as some tools and even two spoons (embossed with the corporate name) from my father's factory. Spoons, tho? Yeah, he'd go up to the cafeteria at break time, get a cup of soup to go, eat it at his station, stick the spoon in his shirt pocket, forget it was there some nights, and it'd wind up at home in the kitchen sink.

As for tools, over half my hand tools are from my old job - they said we could have 'em when they shutdown the joint. I just wish I'd taken more gloves...

 

I was jess kidding here. An 'intimation' that John Wagner might have stolen this yeast in the first place - the original yeast wrangler!

Cheers!

 

Well, sure - maybe he did.
(Last day of work) "Hey, John, good luck in America! You were a fine brewer for me. Say, what's in the bucket?"
"Oh... um... so damn nervous today, boss, I forgot to eat my lunch!"

It is a question about those early days of lager in the US that I've never seen discussed - how many of the early lager brewers used yeast descended from the strain Wagner brought over and how many used other samples brought over. As I recall it, the advent of the clipper ships cut the Atlantic crossing travel time right around that period, so lots of live yeast might have been part of their cargo.

 

Yup. That is why in post #162 I asked: "Was there a second immigrant brewer that brought lager yeast to America?"

Needless to say there is a possibility there was a third or fourth or... immigrant brewer(s) involved as well.

Or perhaps all of the early (later 1840's & 1850's) lager brewers in America obtained later generations of the John Wagner yeast strain. It is important that we not lose sight that over many generations yeast does undergo genetic drift (i.e., mutation) so the even if other American breweries obtain yeast that was 'sourced' from John Wagner by the later 1840's and 1850's those yeast will have 'drifted' from the John Wagner yeast strain of 1840.

Cheers!

 

Yeah, I was checking some of the histories of the other notable circa 1840-50s lager brewers to see if they mentioned the source of their yeast. Philip Best (later Pabst) story is pretty interesting and since the book is public domain, I'll reprint the whole thing (and do Schaefer's in my next post):

FIRST LAGER BEER IN MILWAUKEE

The first lager beer that was ever brewed in Milwaukee was on the premises of the Pabst Brewing Company, late in the year 1851, by Philip Best, who at that time was brewmaster for his father, Jacob Best, the founder of what is now the Pabst Brewing Company. The actual brewmaster was Max Fueger, a German, who had learned his trade in the old country, but Mr. Best never failed to be present when a brew was going on.

All the brewers in Milwaukee at that time made nothing but top fermentation beers. In the year 1850 there were two ale brewers in Milwaukee who had come from England, but never prospered, and also a number of top fermentation beer brewers. Among the latter was a certain Wagner, who operated a brewery near the corner of Twelfth and Galena streets.

He conceived the idea of using a bottom fermentation yeast for brewing lager beer, which yeast he was going to import from Europe. Accordingly he wrote to his brother, who was a brewer in Bavaria, for some bottom fermentation yeast with which to make an experimental brew. As the speed of ocean vessels and railroad trains was not very great in those days, it was greatly a matter of luck whether the yeast upon arrival would still be of sufficiently pure culture to start fermentation, and in thinking these matters over, Wagner began to regret that he had sent for the yeast and came to Philip Best and offered it to him if he would pay the cost of transportation.

To use the words of Mr. Fueger, who vouches for the above facts: “Philip hesitated for a time, but, after thinking it over for a day or two, he finally decided that he would make the attempt to brew lager beer, if the yeast were good enough to warrant the effort. Finally the yeast came. It was packed in a strong wooden box about a foot and a half square. The yeast was packed in a sort of sawdust, around which were wound several folds of strong hop-sacking. The wrapping was carefully taken off, and to the astonishment of all of us, the yeast was found to be in good condition. We took it to the top of the main building and allowed it to dry out thoroughly. Then we dissolved the whole mass in a pail and allowed it to run through a sieve, which held the sawdust and permitted the yeast to pass into a proper receptacle below.”

“The capacity of our kettle in those days was just eighteen barrels, and we calculated that the yeast we had was just about enough for one brew. Neither Philip nor I slept very much while we were trying the new yeast, but it was a success, although we made better lager beer after six months than we did the first time. After our first trial, we brewed top fermentation beer at one brew and the next brew was a bottom fermentation beer.”
100 Years of Brewing - 1903 (Oddly, not in the © 1900 ed.)

@Crusader - in paragraph 2, note the differentiation of "ale brewers" and "top fermentation beer brewers"...hmmm

 

F. & M. Schaefer's story, from their 1942 self-published history Our Hand Has Never Lost its Skill, does not mention where they got their lager yeast and certainly is written (esp. last 3 sentences) reflecting the then current attitude of US adjunct lager brewers:

… the Schaefer brothers introduced to New York a new kind of beer. It was called lager beer.

Up to that time, beers were of the top-fermented type, such as ale, porter, “common beer” or still beer. They were heavy, cloudy, bitter, and completely lacking in sparkle. They were consumed at room temperature a few days after fermentation was completed.

The new lager beer, however, was made with a different type of yeast, which worked in low temperatures and settle to the bottom after completion of fermentation. It also required a lengthy period of secondary fermentation, during which the brew was kept at rest in cold storage – which is the meaning of the word “lager”. It was this lagering period that the beer clarified and developed its pleasing taste and wholesome mellowness. The result was a more palatable beer, lighter in body, which, unlike the still beers of the time, possessed a sparkling quality and clarity. Lager beer was served cold.

 

Given all the chatter about lager yeast in the US, I'm curious about where it was.first captured back in Europe?

I was looking at the $90 6 pack guys website and it claims that lager yeast is believed to have come from a wild Patagonian yeast strain! Seems pretty unlikely to me, but I have no idea. Is there any general consensus on where the bottom fermenting yeast strains first came from?

 

I came across a Dutch language paper (yes, I am that desperate ) from Sheboygan, Wisconsin, De Nieuwsbode from August 4th 1857 where the article below appeared.

"Her bier te St Louis" "The beer at St Louis", referencing the St Louis Republican. Talking about how the beer is overtaking the distilled spirits in popularity and is popular not just among the Germans but also the "English population of St Louis".

Next it gets down to some figures. "There is in this city 30 large breweries and various small ones. A single one of these delivered the previous year 6,200 barrels of tuns lager bier (oud bier) and 9000 barrels schenk bier (versch bier); another 12,000; others 10,000, 9,000, 8,000, 6,000, one which had brewed the least, 400 barrels. The total beer production of the city amounted to at least 125,000 barrels, namely 70,000 barrels oud bier and 55,000 barrels versch bier. Currently the lager beer costs $10, the common beer $7 per barrel. That makes for the total beer production a value of $1,085,000. The quantity of malt used amounted to 285,000 bushels and the hops 330,000 pounds."

I left oud bier and versch bier untranslated since it shows how the author adjusted the language to the the readers who were obviously Dutch speakers, using the term oud bier ("old beer") when refering to the lager beer and the term versch bier ("fresh beer") when refering to the schenkbier.

One can compare the numbers for production against the numbers found in the table below which show production numbers for 1858 and 1859 (the full production numbers are found in the article linked above).

 

Nobody really knows when lager yeast first ‘happened’ but it is commonly detailed as being sometime in the 1400’s.

Genetic studies reveal that lager yeast (Saccharomyces pastorianus) is a hybrid of Saccharomyces cerevisiae (ale yeast) and Saccharomyces eubayanus.

A number of years ago they discovered Saccharomyces eubayanus in the forests of Patagonia. So some folks opined that this was the source for creating the hybrid Saccharomyces pastorianus. But how the heck did this yeast get from Patagonia to Germany/Czech Republic over 500 years ago (when lager brewing started). Christopher Columbus did not arrive to the New World until 1492. I am not aware that there was any trading between South America and Europe before then.

Now, Saccharomyces eubayanus exist in other parts of the world (e.g., China) and there has been regular commerce between Europe and China since the times of Marco Polo (13th century). Maybe some yeast ‘hitchhiked’ on some trading goods?

Below is from an Abstract from a technical paper published in 2019 (with emphasis in bold by me):

“Our genome analysis together with previous reports in the sister species S. uvarum strongly suggests that the S. eubayanus ancestor could have originated in Patagonia or the Southern Hemisphere, rather than China, yet further studies are needed to resolve this conflicting scenario. Understanding S. eubayanus evolutionary history is crucial to resolve the unknown origin of the lager yeast and might open new avenues for biotechnological applications.”

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/709253v1

Perhaps there have been other genetic studies which either further the connection of South America or perhaps advances a non-South American (e.g., China) answer over the past year?

Cheers!

 

Y'all lost me at "ice".

 

@EmperorBatman look what you started...

...and despite 5 pages of discussion about historical AAL brewing I bet you still don't have an answer to your question yet.

 

The ones that are no longer brewed.

 

Captured or isolated? The latter finally happened in 1883 at the Carlsberg Brewery.

Of course, we all know it was being propagated and in use previously, but it was finally identified (if that's the correct term) in 1883.

https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/iq3dcW8sAR/

 

I posted in this thread a recommendation for him to try Straub 1872 Pre-Prohibition Lager.

Cheers!

P.S. And some others: post #22.

 

Fair enough. I lost that in the rest. ;-)