Did Harp Lager change?

Is your avatar a homebrew? You're kinda young to have a "fortran" reference for your avatar (you should have been learning "C" by then). Or maybe you were an older student who was going back to college. Or you could have been working on a project with "legacy" software??

 

I haven't tasted Harp or most of its import competitors in years, but I'll comment any way. I just don't think the taste of Harp (or of many imports) matters much. New Harp can't be that bad. Corona sells great, and isn't really considered a fine lager. Harp doesn't sell too well. It will get served at Irish themed bars and restaurants and that's about all. Diageo probably adjusted the recipe to make it as easy to brew and to drink as possible.

 

Guinness needs to just stick with what they do best. Stout.
The Blonde Ale is garbage, the Black Lager even worse.
Smithwick's is what we made the proper half and half with at our Pub.
I have not tried the "New" Harp as of yet but I'm sure they probably screwed that one up too.

 

Exactly -- and it's regional all right, between Ireland and England.

On my last trip to Ireland I stopped at a little bar-kiosk at the airport for a last Guinness. An (obviously) American couple walked up and ordered "2 black & tans please." Bar tender poured the Bass, floated the Guinness, and handed the pints to the couple -- who looked confused and said, "Oh, uh -- we wanted Harp." Un-phased bar tender says, "Oh, half and halfs."

Tender leans over to pour out the B&Ts and glances over at me -- I roll my eyes and he just smirks.

Learning moment? Don't know.

 

Guinness and Bass is a Black and Tan.

Guinness and Harp is a Half and Half.

They are different things so it's not really regional. In fact, Black and Tan is a pejorative term among the Irish. That was the nickname of the English soldiers sent to Ireland like a 100 years ago to fight the IRA.

 

Well, the "Black & Tan" terminology for beers predated the 1920s era nickname of the Royal Irish Constabulary.

As for a "Half & Half " being only Guinness (or some other stout) + Harp (or some other light lager), US brewers disagreed:

Even Guinness once (pre-Harp) wasn't quite as picky:

(though, obviously, today Diageo likes that the last few decades of their PR has created that widespread belief in their brand-specific definitions - well, until Guinness USA lost the contract to import Bass Ale).

 

Not everyone uses the terminology correctly. But you are correct that they don't have to be Bass or Harp. A Black and Tan is supposed to have a Pale Ale though, and a Half and Half is supposed to have a Pale Lager. Calling it a Half and Half with an Ale is incorrect even if it has been done. We know that US brewers call things incorrect all the time, such as the use of the word Bock in the US.

 

(Fifco (Genesse) owns the Labatt brand in the US.)

Has anyone done a blind taste test of Labatt ABInbev (sold in Canada) vs. Labatt (Fifco/MolsonCoors for US)? It also might be interesting to see how Corona and Modelo (Constellation brewed in Mexico, sold in US) stack up against the ABInbev (brewed and sold in Mexico) versions.

 

Well, it's even written into the US TTB regulations:

I guess, like so much of beer marketing and terminology these day, one has to reply to that: "Sez who?"

 

I mean, you are right lol

I still like to try to stick to the original designations

 

Class of malt beverage seems to have a slippery definition at ATF "class and type":
Statements of class and type shall conform to the designation of the product as known to the trade. If the product is not known to the trade under a particular designation, a distinctive or fanciful name, together with an adequate and truthful statement of the composition of the product, shall be stated, and such statement shall be deemed to be a statement of class and type for the purposes of this part.
Ale and stout could be construed as two classes. In Oregon in the 60's, I believe that stout was defined by the liquor commission as a special category (class?) that could exceed 4% ABW, along with ale and malt liquor. At that time some German fest beers had "beer" marked out and replaced by malt liquor or ale designations. Similar apparently in Texas until recently.

 

But what do they really know about Guinness?

 

Well... while for some Guinness is a higher authority (like Hebrew National in a different segment of the greater food and beverage industry) the US Feds' definitions reflect the separation of church and state - or, the more cynical, lefty view - they only worship the almighty dollar.

As for the "layered" look of the Guinness and ____ , whether it's a Black & Tan or Half 'n' Half - they weren't so fussy back in the era when the US only got bottled FES. Save time and pour 'em together:

Yeah, still are by the TTB (as noted in the BAM I linked to). But, as you note, several states had stricter definitions - in Texas' case, it was an excise tax issue:

Others limited the sale of beers over a certain ABV to certain licenses, etc.

Originally the post-Repeal US FAA Act also had the requirement that "ale" be of higher ABV than the standard (lager) beer:

... but the brewers themselves objected.

 

The Texas tax people made the industry go through a lot to get their extra half cent a gallon. In Oregon there was even less reason for the labeling requirements. In Oregon the distinction between label classes was a rule that didn't seem to have a clear purpose at all, except to subtly clue consumers as to strength. Supermarkets and convenience stores sold (and sell) packaged malt beverages and wine on the same license (in the 60s and 70s up to 8% abw for malt liquor/ale/stout and 14% abv for wine (which gave us14% Thunderbird).

 

On trips to Ireland during the 70's and 80's, I always found Harp to be terrible. Guinness, Murphy and MacCardle were my choices.

On a trip to Dublin in 2019, I tried a pint and it was okay. It was actually similar to Hop House 13.

 

Oregon also had their infamous law against unpasteurized packaged beer that kept Coors out of the state and left a big unexplained white section in Coors' mid-1970s map (and likely helped Blitz-Weinhard survive a few years longer, before being bought by Pabst and then Heileman).


It is funny that while the Pacific Coast states were the primary region for the birth of craft beer, they did have a history of somewhat restrictive laws - wasn't there an ABV limit on beer in Washington that meant local product Rainier Ale was only sold in state liquor stores? And California had a 3.2 ABW limit on draught beer into the 1950s and after that, IIRC, the limit was still 4% ABW into the 1970s or so - maybe it even lasted longer in certain counties, which is why Sierra Nevada Pale Ale has a lower alcohol "Draught" version.

 

I believe Washinton's 4%abw limits for supermarkets actually forced Rainier to brew a palatable 4% Rainier Ale for supermarkets. I only had one or two, but I remember that the 4% ale was a big improvement. I had an aunt who ran a liquor store in Aberdeen, WA, who brought to my grandparents in Portland 8 oz cans of Country Club -- I was too young to sample. Blitz near the end was probably surviving on royalties from Olde English ML and sales of the new Henry Weinhard's, both selling beyond the home market. Those regional and national sales were attractive to Pabst, and Blitz also had an up-to-date brewery that could replace the ancient Eastside plant in LA (Pabst did add capacity to the Portland brewery after acquisition).

 

Interesting factoid. I was the one who added the Samuel Smith Lager and I seemed to have added it before I joined BA.

 

Has it always been called "organic?"

I remember drinking a Smith lager back in the late 80s -- early 90s, but can't remember if it was labeled as organic.

But I remember thinking it had similar qualities to Harp of that era.

 

Not labeled like currently until...

In 2012, Pure Brewed Organic Lager replaced Pure Brewed Lager and Organic Lager; UPC codes are the same as Organic Lager.