The Problem with Turning Beer into Dessert

I didn't miss the point of your example - hyperbole or otherwise - it was just a bad example. Are Cantillon & 3F struggling to sell their inventory? I'm not aware of that being the case. If they are, yet still focus on lambic/gueuze out of a sense of artistic integrity, then I guess yeah - well done.

You understand that not every brewery is run by an eccentric artist, hell bent on their vision, negative financial implications be damned? For the most part these are BUSINESSES first and foremost.

 

I am on a weekly e-mail distribution of a local beer retailer where he details the new beers he has in stock. Below is an extract of today’s e-mail:

“These Beers are on Fire!!

12oz 4pk Cans Smooj

Seltzer Strawberry Banana Smoothie

(4.43 Untappd Rating)


12oz 4pk Cans Smooj

Pina Colda Seltzer Smoothie

(4.56 Untappd Rating)”

I suppose the above is an indication of what today’s craft beer drinkers are desiring/demanding these days?

Cheers!

@jts211

 

Try the veal...don't forget to tip your waitperson...

I sort of understand the angst of the OP. Quite a few beers I enjoyed have gone to their graves as have some breweries - one I do not know the entire motivation, one made a series of massively misinformed (dare I say stupid, why yes I do) business decisions while staying true to their "roots" (ie, not IPAs of any kind). I don't pretend to understand all the intricacies of running a brewery or understanding market trends. What I do know is there is much more variety on the store shelf that I could ever consume and that some styles take a bit more effort to find than others which reflects what sells and where, I suppose.

So have some breweries maybe "sold out" and gone 100% in a particular direction - absolutely. Have some started up with the sole purpose of latching on to the current trends to make a quick buck - sure? Is there somebody else picking up the slack - yeppers on that one too. Will that go on forever - probably not. There are a couple of breweries I like that do focus "on the masses" for their canned distro products, yet both turn out incredible beers for their brewery only releases. Looking at the can portfolios, these are styles you'd never expect them to make. Even one of my "closet" breweries - Harpoon - can't deny for a second that their main line up is trendy and aimed "for the masses", but their Barrel Series and any one-off I have had shows me more capability than what they sell to keep the lights on. So maybe...just maybe...it is possible to have your pastry stout and drink it too?

 

Larry, I am in a similar situation that if I go to purchased packaged beer (cans, bottles) at my local beer retailers there are indeed beer styles to choose from besides IPAs, Pastry Stouts, Fruity Sours, etc. but the proportions have notably changed in the past few years with the 'rise' of the Haze.

Where beer retailing was most skewed for me was tap space at local craft beer bars and brewery tasting rooms. Too many of those tap handles are devoted to the contemporary 'sexy' beers. How many varieties of hazy IPAs need to be on tap all at the same time? Needles to say the bar/brewery owners are catering to the 'vocal' Haze Bros at the detriment of people who would prefer to drink a beer that tastes like beer.

Cheers!

 

Ah ya, I had totally forgotten about that aspect. I think that it was in its peak just.before my time as a drinker because I remember those kinds of labels being from older breweries when I was first getting in. So it appears we've moved from frat boy trashiness to school yard humor and emulating 90s children's media. An improvement maybe?

 

Yeah, I don't do many bar visits and my tap room visits tend to be the ones I already know and enjoy, at least they were. I see more of a skew locally towards ciders and hard seltzer taking retail space. So around my area the mix has remained at least half way decent in terms of style variety. There's no shortage of IPAs but I can also find a fine local pilsner. Observation of what's on tap at many of the local(ish) breweries would support yours. There are a lot more locals putting beer in cans and distributing locally, so we will see where that heads in the future.

 

Perhaps not but reality as disappointing as it may be is that Beer Advocate is far from a litmus for the average consumer of craft beer. We enjoy the delicate art of turning four simple ingredients into a incredibly well balanced, quaffable beverage with an incredibly diverse range of flavors, but that average consumer just wants their flavor to be flavor and they don't really care how it gets there. Why wouldn't they be excited to see what they view as a bottle of pine resin be discontinued in favor of a beverage thats more parts smoothie than beer?

 

As fun of a world view as that might be truth is the 'Haze bros' are being vocal with their wallets and that's all that matters to a business.

 

As a liquor store the value of the every-day drinker is actually (imo) greater than the more experimental types. I can please a hundred people with a 50 case stack and just one slot on the shelf. No need to hunt down the newest releases trying to keep these guys happy, just consistent and reliable consumption, certainly nothing to balk at.

And on a personal level I'm really not judging anyone for their drinking habits, as much as I wish they'd abandon their Coors and Bud Light to support our local brewers it's certainly not their responsibility. The apathy towards new releases mean's more shelf space for fun things (or just more fucking seltzers nowadays.)

However my point really wasn't from the perspective of a liquor store but the perspective of a brewery. You can't really chase the folks who drink the same things consistently because most of them aren't going to try your stuff in the first place whereas your hazy-juice beer fanatics almost never get the same thing twice and are more likely to take gambles with unknown brands.

And this certainly isn't a hard set rule, there are hazy fans who only drink New Belgiums Juicy haze and I've got WCIPA fans asking for the newest IPA's from local brewers. But the sales data speaks loudly, WCIPA fans largely stick to their usual and the Hazys are far more evenly spread out across different brands and releases.

 

I'm wondering at what point you think a beer crosses into pastry territory? I was drinking an English Barleywine aged on vanilla beans tonight and this experience prompted my question. It was disgustingly sweet, IMO. There was a hint in the reviews that it may be a pastry beer-Barleywine on this occasion, but nothing overtly describing it as a pastry beer. The hint was this is more a dessert beer and very sweet. That said, I love Grand Cacao by Troegs and someone described that beer as a very sweet dessert beer, which I disagree with. The fundamental base is there and prevalent.

So, I wasted $8 to sample a beer I know I would not like had I known it was a pastry beer. To me, a pastry beer is a beer that is so overwhelmed by sweetness that the base beer/style is almost unrecognizable. What is a pastry beer to you and how do you recognize it as such? And, are all pastry beers as sweet as I am describing? For example, I love Perrenial's #17 Mint Stout, though I understand it could be perceived by some to be a pastry beer with its huge fudge/sweetness.

Yet 17 still remains a beer to me, as the base beer is front and center without tasting fake/overly sweet to my palate. As does their Abraxas. However, Sump really makes a case to be a pastry stout in my mind. It is outstanding , but at the same time tremendously sweet with its fudge/coffee goodness. So sweet that I feel it may be a pastry stout, yet I dont know what that is beyond a doubt. So, help me out, at what point does a beer become a pastry beer? I'd like to avoid what my mind perceives as a pastry beer since I have liked very few EXCEPTIONALLY sweet beers.

 

If you're going to call something a pastry beer, it ought to have, at the very least, a donut sticking out of the glass. That's where I draw the line. Don't let your mouth write a check your ass can't cash.

 

Does ice cream fall into the family of pastries?



Cheers!

 

This was mantra for years, so many stouts with advertised flavors that were so subtle they were imperceptible. Now we have the opposite, beers that are lost under the flavorings advertised on the bottle. I had a brownie batter stout from weldwerks that helped me decide these beers aren't for me.
To the op, once it stops tasting like beer I tap out.

 

Even though there is very often a correlation, I don't think that sweet=pastry or not sweet=not pastry. Have had plenty of "pure" english barleywines that are too sweet. And have had clear cut pastries that have been (relatively) balanced.

Also been a few months since I had either, but Sump has never struck me as overly-sweet compared to Abraxas. My imperfect recall would say the opposite, if anything.

 

Agreed but much like someone could eat a Big Mac every 2 weeks with little effect to health, the same could be said for these beers, if someone was so inclined to have one. Some people drink 6 mountain dews a day, some have a banana cream brownie fudge stout at the end of the day. It’s the way of the world and I don’t think health plays into the minds of the people make either of these decisions.

 

This is my same read.

Pastry would equal a beer with flavor additions that would imply sweetness or some dessert style notes, i.e. pastry-style notes. If a beer comes out overly sweet, than it's just a miss from the brewer.

On topic of Perennial - Sump came back this year after taking a hiatus last year. It would leave me to wonder if something in the recipe changed between editions. Otherwise, I've always found this to be a standard imperial stout with coffee, at least, that was my experience when Sump was last released in 2019.

 

I agree, in some regards it has turned into an adjunct-fest with some of these beers. One of the early pioneers of this style that I remember trying (well before the Nitro version):


It was a total love/hate thing at the time and probably should have been marketed with an EpiPen because they were so over the top for the time. I bought an entire case of these (12 / 22 oz bottles) and squirreled them away. The last bottle was finished about five years later and it was surprisingly good, I tip my hat to Southern Tier. The original batch was pretty incredible (IMO). "Childishness" is a little harsh but totally get it. Marketing sells. I'm not bashing your post at all, it just been interesting to watch how the beer landscape has changed over the years (whether it be for the better or worse).

 

The problem with turning beer into dessert and making that style the most hyped style on the market is that the most craft-centric beer drinkers start drinking less beer. Sure this trend may grow the pie temporarily but in the end, craft beer needs their customers to drink quality and quantity. The industry would do themselves a service encouraging more sessionable and repeatable styles