Hill Farmstead (2021)

Hey @grassrootsVT , check it out. The dudes on Beer Advocate just solved all your problems.

 

The comments under their last post are so intense. It’s pretty sad. He needs to be human and find a way to address, correct and not let all of the employees suffer through this. I imagine some even feeling guilty like you’re aiding and abetting a criminal or shitbag at least. I know their are great people who work there and I don’t want them to have to question themselves or their own morals to keep a paycheck.

Let alone people who he has hurt. Let them get closure and the respect they always deserved which you tried to take from them

 

When you originally asked about what people here wanted to happen, were you looking to understand that perspective a little better... or was that just your way of implicitly saying “I don’t think people should be upset by this” or like “this pushback shouldn’t be happening” or something along those lines?

 

Even for those people who want to go fully "both sides" on this one - just from a self-preservation/commercial perspective, it's hard to dispute that HF has dropped the ball pretty majorly on this.

But there are differences between this vs TH vs some of the other people/places that have received repeat comments, though. Generally the posted stories were women posting about their direct experiences with the offender - "he said/did XYZ to me". However the two most-touted SH anecdotes both involved third parties. I think that does have somewhat of a bearing. It would be great for HF employees to speak out directly - what's it like to work there for women/minorities? Is this another toxic workplace type of situation, or is this more of a Shaun Hill outside of the workplace thing (to the extent that's possible to others' prior comments on that dynamic)? Maybe the brewer in question can chime in - did Shaun Hill say he wanted to fuck Brienne verbatim or did he say something else and the brewer choose those words - be it out of malice/a desire for drama/inebriation/whatever?

 

To clarify, I never claimed anywhere that it would solve any of his problems. Nevertheless, what I suggested are a number of *small* steps in the right direction.

The bigger point here: It's not about his problems. Like, that's the entire god damned point.

 

I honestly don't know. It's obvious that some of you clearly don't like Hill the person. Whether it's the verbose posts, the pretentious, elitist way he frames both his beer and his brewery, I get it. As an unabashed Hill beer fanboy, I fully admit it can be a bit much sometimes. And to that extent this opened a opportunity for a whole shit ton of schaudenfreude to either bring him down a few notches, or ultimately take down his business. We did this whole thing in the Tired Hands thread. Some of you want them to burn it all down to satisfy your own needs. And some of you will still be unsatisfied with how the fire burned.

In regards to the AirBNB allegation. I don't know what Hill said or didn't say. I don't know what he did or didn't do. And chances are neither do you. But I'm not going to sit here stomping my feet until he comes out with some carefully crafted missive that will help me sleep better at night. My uneducated guess? He's taking some time to find the words and actions he feels are right. It's not happening overnight.

I'm really starting to feel stupid for continuing to engage. I'm confident we're all relatively reasonable people off these websites, but we're just not going to agree here. Your mind's not changing any more than mine is. Should things change down the road, allegations confirmed, employees speak out or revolt, then obviously I will see things differently. I think people should be upset by these stories. I think the change that has already begun is a good things. I also don't think the pushback on Hill and Hill alone should be happening with what we know right now.

 

Don't mean to sound like a jerk telling you to shut up because that's not at all my intention, but perhaps with such an undefined perspective that is -by your own admission- not all that sure what you're looking for from Hill or even from this thread, it would be best to take a more backseat role instead of chiming in to cast wry criticisms lobbed at those who have sincere (and reasonable) feelings on the subject?

Doing so, I'm sure you can understand, begins to sound a little like you're attempting to subtly trash this process of finding wrongdoing and achieving better equity going forward... and wanting to assume the best of anonymous people that I don't know, I am assuming that you don't mean to come off this way and probably don't want to!

Just a thought.

By "we did this whole thing" do you mean you also accused the convo participants of "wanting to burn the whole thing down," too?... when many people have expressed the exact opposite?... and when I, specifically, chimed in to suggest that I was personally satisfied with the way things were moving forward? I'm a little confused, because that doesn't seem to match the way you've been characterizing both threads.

And as an aside I don't think the comparisons between Hill and Tired Hands situations' are all that great (hence I was happy to chime in on the substance of the TH allegations and far more reticent to do so here) other than some of the "larger picture" issues (i.e. sexism in the industry, systemic change).

 

I don't really have strong feelings about him prior to this. Plenty of brewers use silly language to describe their process or beers (whether we're talking about SAT words or absurdist descriptions). He runs a brewery that makes great beer, so I couldn't care less if he's advertises his philosophy degree in every interview. I'm buying his beer not marrying the guy.
But there's a lot of smoke to be no fire, and certainly he did have some sort of working relationship with Jean, which again, isn't a great look at this time. End of the day, TH, HF, their owners, and their employees are going to do what they're going to do, despite what anyone on this board says. If enough people decide to not buy their beer due to the stories and their personal stances, I fail to see why that's so offensive or unreasonable. Based on the last handful of years it seems pretty obvious these types of stories and allegations are rarely made out of thin air. I don't think my buying a few less pours of HF in NYC or Worcester matters. But this is a beer discussion website, and being a huge industry, these increasingly are going to be the types of discussions that go on, whatever artistry or idealism might go into any brewery's formation.

 

be right back starting a business with my boys in the hopes of becoming really successful so I can fire them all.

 

This describes way more than just some of the allegations that were made against him personally. Many of the most harrowing accounts of physical and sexual abuse are "secondhand accounts." Are they not also a "game of telephone" and therefore untrue, just as the ones about him are? Or are we to believe that Shaun Hill thinks only the secondhand accounts about him are untrue, and the rest are true?

 

Having friends or family help you start a business is fine, but it is still a business. If you have responsibilities running a brewery (ownership, management, etc.) you have certain codes of conduct that should be enforced, if only for the sake of avoiding criminal charges or civil suits. I think their point is "your best buds from college" may not always be up to that. If a group of friends lack any alternative perspectives and can't hold each other accountable that's a issue regardless of industry.
Basically, maybe these brewers need people in management whose decision-making isn't clouded by personal relationships and a shared history (meaning shared unconscious bias).

 

So anyway......

Anyone try the new Damon yet? Any good?

 

From the article-- "Allan has maintained that she “does not vouch” for the accuracy of individual stories she has shared"

Even Brienne herself said she's not vouching for the accuracy of the stories, is she "casting doubt" as well?

 

No.

 

So the person who posted all of these stories says she can't even vouch for their accuracy, aka, truthfulness, and that's somehow okay?

Bottom line, the manner in which these stories were put out there was HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE.

Second-hand, anonymous accusations of individuals BY NAME, posted with no accounting for accuracy or verification.

Whether these things really happened, or are outright fabrications, or, likely, somewhere in-between, doesn't really matter I guess.

 

Yep.

Nope, sorry, there is nothing irresponsible about it. Telling these peoples' stories has already led to positive change, and will likely lead to a lot more. "Irresponsible" is about the most inappropriate description of the decision to publish these stories. Many of them are things which are already open secrets in the brewing world, it sounds like. They deserved to be aired to a wider audience.

Of course it matters. What I think you're missing here is that the people it matters to - the women in the industry, the employees in the industry generally - will know what is true and what isn't.

You or I can't really know what is accurate and what isn't, but so what? The longtime employees at a place named will immediately know if the stories paint an accurate picture. And having these stories out there will embolden them, where the stories are accurate, to act and make their workplaces better and safer for women, and better for all of the employees too.

 

National Sexual Violence Resource Center estimates between 2-10% of sexual assault reports are false. So between 90-98% of them are not. They also estimate that of all the sexual assault crimes that happen, as many as 63% are never reported to the police. Read it yourself:

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPRehbigyiE/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

“While my persona is intrinsically linked with the brewery, and that responsibility has weighed heavily, I am writing this as a singular voice, Shaun Hill. My personal actions have been called into question, and I’ve needed time to reflect. This time has allowed me to recognize that things are rarely as clear-cut as we wish them to be; every observation, each perception, exists within a fabric of intricately connected and disconnected emotionality and experiential trauma.

I am genuinely sorry and apologetic for anything that I have ever said or done that may have created discomfort or added to an existing hurt. This moment will hold our community, myself included, accountable while simultaneously demanding that we do better.

To our team, I promise to continue to nurture and advance the culture that we have built at Hill Farmstead Brewery.

I have long been an advocate of a higher consciousness for consumption, environmental impact, and our ethical treatment of one another. It is something that I strive for each day. I have never intentionally disrespected or mistreated anyone.

What I have learned and will continue to learn forever is how helpful it can be to listen, engage, and respect all perspectives and experiences. This is a practice that can never be perfect but will always warrant my attention.

The future of the beer industry must incorporate all voices and effectively begin to value people rather than profit. We need to be present and supportive and facilitate open communication while embracing and demonstrating our own vulnerability as leaders and owners. Personal moments can be shared in safe spaces with respect and active listening.

I am listening. I am committed to growth and change. I will continue to work towards an equitable, safe, respectful, and inspired community.”

 

Basically another denial. People can decide who they choose to believe.

 

"I have never intentionally disrespected or mistreated anyone."

Never? I mean can literally anyone say this? Materially this is no different from the prior vacuous "sorry if I offended you. "