Pillars of Tradition — How a New Generation of Brewers Returned to Decoction Mashing

Here's the report on decoction vs. infusion in Harp that I mentioned.

 

As long as it's cask-conditioned. And Ayinger do that, at least the German equivalent, Bayerische Anstich.

 

Note that the IBUs were slightly higher in the infusion-mashed version.

 

Entirely possible. Having stated that there is a bigger picture here and in the myriad of brewing choices that a brewer makes from ingredient choices to mashing method choices to fermentation condition choices (e.g., yeast strain selection, pitch rate, temperature(s), choice of fermenter geometry & size,...) to lagering choices (for the case of lagered beers) to... specific mashing method is just one small piece of a much larger pie.

FWIW I am a big believer that of the overall brewing process that making good choices during the fermentation phase is the most critical part. The keystone of the arch so to speak.

As regards decoction mashing at Private Landbrauerei Schönram the aspect that Eric Toft is looking to maximize is fermentability of the wort. He seeks a beer (e.g., his Helles) that will achieve a very low final gravity since that quality will result in a beer that has great drinkability - his customers will want to drink many half-liters of his Helles. I can understand why Eric values this quality for his brewery and his beer (Helles) since more drinkablity means both increased revenue/sales and happy customers. A classic win-win for the brewing industry.

No real details for me to comment upon. At least Eric Toft provided some brewing details (i.e., attenuation) but nothing you can 'hang your hat' on here. It would seem that after some practice Johnson prefers his Pilsner he brewed via decoction mashing vs. before - needless to say a subjective statement. Maybe just a case of it took Johnson to overall become a 'better' brewer over a period of several years and he is chalking this up to one process change? Did he keep all of his other processes 100% the same or was he tweaking there as well? Your guess is as good as mine.

One thing I do not have to guess about is that an experienced/knowledgeable brewer can produce high quality beers like Pilsners without decoction mashing. I have 'proved' this via many pints of drinking.

Cheers!

P.S. High quality Pilsner can be produced via decoction mashing as well. I too 'proved' that with many, many 1/2 liter mugs of Bohemian Pilsners during my two weeks in the Czech Republic.

 

Speaks "volumes" to me.

 

I’ve quoted this one before (see below) but I’m not so sure they are not…maybe some are and some aren’t but the article is pretty clear that “not decocted” as a whole may not 100% apply to Ayinger.

Here is the link it is from 2020:

https://tempestinatankard.com/2020/09/23/ayinger-munichs-country-brewery/

see A CUTTING-EDGE BREWERY FOR TRADITIONAL BEERS section.

It’s mentions it several times and explicitly says all their wheat beers are decocted.

I will say I don’t care if a beer is decocted or not if it tastes great who cares. My favorite dunkel (hofbrau) happens to be but to be honest I don’t know how many of my favorite beers are or are not. Cause as I think we both agree if it tastes good and has good mouthfeel I don’t think it matters.

 

On that we can agree.

Cheers to you Jon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I've tried English malts. They don't do it for me. They come across as sweet to me, not malty. I essentially use wyermann for everything homebrew. I rely a lot on Vienna and Munich for a depth to my malt. It's worked best for me thus far.

Did it. It tasted sweet to me. GNOs do the same thing in my brewhouse.

 

Well, we all have our individual palates. I drank a glass of my homebrewed Bitter Ale earlier this evening and nothing in that beer was "sweet" for me but that is my palate.

Cheers!

 

I always ask myself, could it be better? Just because something is good, doesn't mean it can't be improved.

For example, when Notch first hit the scene, their first Czech Pale Lager was their "Session Pils". I loved it. But it was contract brewed, and the process wasn't as fine tuned as it is at their Salem brewery.

They opened the Salem brewery and they had more control over the process, and could do much more. They brewed a beer called "The Standard". It blew my mind on tap at the brewery. It might have been just about the best craft beer I'd ever had at that point.

Another example are English ales. Sure, they're very good packaged. But then have the same beer on cask and it can be another mind blowing experience. And I think to myself, "Damn, what have I been missing?" Not that decoction mashing and cask are the same idea/process.

So sure, if it tastes good, it's all good to me. But who's to say it couldn't be even better?

 

Damn you and your refined palate!

FWIW -- I felt the same about Dovetail's Helles on draft as you about that Notch beer. I was actually sad to leave that keg all alone when I went home that night.

 

This is true and you are right there could be improvement in a lot of good beers.

I think I may just come at this topic with my own bias of if decoction just becomes the next buzzword. Maybe I’m just trying to say just because a beer is decocted it doesn’t necessarily make it a better beer.

But yes when done right it’s obvious. I had a hunch hofbrau dunkel and maibock were because of how complex and at the same time drinkable they were. I checked several months back when this topic came up. Turns out they both were, hofbrau munich lists which are and aren’t on their site.

 

And this is indeed a fair statement/thought. What method a brewer chooses as regards mashing is just one aspect of a long line of other decision points in the overall brewing process. And as I have already discussed previously in my opinion there are other brewing process aspects of greater import to the quality of the resulting beer.

I have consumed enough high quality lagers that were brewed without decoction mashing to know this is not a necessary method. But high quality lagers can be produced using decoction mashing as well.

Cheers!

P.S. And to put a finer point on the discussion just because a certain brewer/brewery chooses to conduct decoction mashing does not in and of itself mean those beers will be 'better' since other aspects of the brewing may be sub-optimum.

 

This.

I was going to ask opinions on HB Maibock and then point out its decoction mashing.

I think the biggest trouble with highlighting the difference in the process is not having the same beer mashed both ways to compare side-by-side.

 

Dovetail's Helles is the best I've had outside Bavaria. It literally threw itself down my neck.

 

Open fermentation also seems to make for better Lagers.

 

We've discussed this before, and I had never had the chance to try it vom Fass -- but man, stuff was sublime.

 

Ron, I have enjoyed drinking lagers fermented in open fermenters. For example I enjoyed the Pilsners brewed by Únětický pivovar:



Those beers are fermented in open fermenters:



Having stated the above there are lager breweries who prefer to not ferment in open fermenters since the lack of head pressure results in elevated levels of esters (as compared to fermenting in a closed fermenter like a CCV):

"Head Pressure

Commercial brewers typically use cylindroconical vessels (CCV) to ferment their beers and those tanks are capable of holding pressure. Some homebrewers also have this capability via unitanks or kegs. Fermenting under pressure results in reduced esters and reduced higher alcohols (fusel oils). If a brewer is looking to achieve extremely low levels of esters as in lagers then fermenting under pressure may be desirable.

Conversely some commercial breweries will ferment their beers in open fermenters in environmentally (approaching sterile) controlled rooms. Examples of beer styles which are sometimes (often?) fermented in open fermenters are Hefeweizen, British Ale, Czech lagers,... Both the shape of these fermenters (sometimes wider than taller) and the ability to completely outgas carbon dioxide with no head pressure increases the production of esters."

https://www.morebeer.com/articles/Fermenting_beer

I personally enjoy lagers (e.g., Pilsners) that are fermented in open fermenters and I personally enjoy lagers (e.g., Pilsners) that are fermented in closed CCV fermenters. I appreciate the 'extra' cleanness of the closed fermented lagers and I appreciate the comparatively more notable esters from the open fermented lagers. This is not a either/or situation for me.

Cheers!

 

Some folks may be interested in reading an exBEERiment documented on the Brulosophy website:

The Decoction Effect: Triple Decoction vs. Single Infusion | exBEERiment Results!

Some snippets from the write-up:

“| PURPOSE |

To evaluate the differences between a German Pilsner made using a triple decoction method and a beer of the same recipe made with a single infusion mash.”

And:

“| RESULTS |

A panel of 33 people with varying levels experience participated in this xBmt. Each blind taster was served 2 samples of the single infusion beer and 1 sample of the triple decoction beer in differently colored opaque cups then instructed to select the unique sample. At this sample size, 17 tasters (p<0.05) would have had to accurately select the unique sample to achieve statistical significance. Ultimately, 15 tasters (p=0.10) chose the different beer, suggesting participants were not able to reliably distinguish a German Pils made using a triple decoction method from the same beer made using a single infusion batch sparge method.

Given the non-significant results, any further data collected is meaningless, as the findings don’t support the notion that triple decoction made a statistically distinguishable difference.”

https://brulosophy.com/2016/12/12/m...ction-vs-single-infusion-exbeeriment-results/

I would encourage the ‘interested student’ to read the entire write-up.

Cheers!

 

Ron (@patto1ro) brought up the topic of open fermentation in post #56 so I thought some BAs might be learning more about this topic. You can learn more below courtesy of Jeremey King (a microbiologist):



Cheers!