Stoneface is making an American Adjunct Lager

Yes to all of this.

 

One thing I give them a lot of credit for is moving away from the 16.9oz bottles. I talked to them when they started doing the bottles and they seemed pretty sure that the format was going to be a winner but they made a smooth transition to cans once that writing was on the wall. Not all breweries (looking at you MBC) are willing to make the change so easily...

 

Living down the street I agree yes to all above.

Above all you can buy single cans. Pay attention breweries. Also bring it back trillium!!!!

 

If the CAP or even AAL was good I'd happily buy it at Jack's Abby prices; the last one I got was like $9.99 a sixer.

At the same time I noticed a few other "summer lagers" at the store but the $15-16/ 4 pack price tag seems really prohibitive.

 

Michael, permit me to 'springboard' off of your post.

It seems like craft breweries seem to want to charge too much (e.g., $15-16/ 4 pack) for their lagers (regardless of type of lager) and there are some craft customers (most craft customers?) who view these prices as being "really prohibitive". I am one of those customers. So, if these sorts of beers do not sell well for the brewery they may decide there is not a market for lagers within the craft beer consumer portion of the beer market. They will then decide to discontinue producing lagers and concentrate on IPAs, Pastry Stouts, Fruited Sours, etc. But there may indeed be a market for US craft brewed lagers but at a more reasonable price point.

I would also suggest that perhaps the craft breweries re-think their choice as regards package format. I personally much prefer the six-pack/12 ounce format for my lagers (and other types) and perhaps other consumers feel the same way as I do.

Cheers!

 

I agree with the package preference for 12 oz. bottles or cans for single serve -- but for me resealable quarts or half gallons (growlers) would be OK too. I like less-carbonated beers in general. It's certain that large cans aren't good for leftovers. The perceived cost of brewing well-aged lagers drops when a brewery finds itself with excess capacity (probably common for larger craft brewers nowadays). Those aging tanks would be underutilized: might as well use them to age a good lager.

 

The cognitive dissonance around lagers from people that are very into craft beer has always been surprising to me.

Like, why do you think lagers should be significantly cheaper than IPAs? They take (ballpark) twice as long to make, which means a few things -- you could turn two different IPAs around in the time it takes to make a lager and you're also *literally* paying for the labor of your brewer(s). That's part of the calculus. They take longer and are harder to make. Those are inarguable facts.

I know Jack's Abby is able to make world-class lager at a very low price-point but they're an outlier. Schilling, Suarez, Threes and a lot of these other great lager producers are putting out $16 4-packs and nobody complains. Nor should they. So why the issue when your local spot charges $14 for a 4-pack of their new Italian pils (or whatever)? If you want $10 4-packs outside JA (or I guess Notch, not super familiar with their pricing model) you had better get a time machine.

 

And I'll grant that a craft brewer making an AAL is different than a great Czech pils, but most craft AALs I see (Grimm, Sloop, Crossroads just to name a few in NY) are definitely right in that $10 range (or cheaper) so I don't think that's the convo we're having here.

 

Notch's four packs from their brewery are usually about $13 per four pack. The three beers they have now (a German Pils, Altbier, and Helles Rauchbier) are all at that price.

Yup, totally right.

Nightshift's Nite Lite series is always significantly cheaper than anything else they put out. It's an adjunct lager so they price it accordingly.

 

My whole thing – personal to me – is that while I’m well aware that a quality lager can take longer to make than an ale, my beer budget doesn’t care about that. I typically like to spend X amount per week/month on beer. But, because lagers are crushable, it’s more likely I’ll want 2 lagers one night because they go down so fast. Yet, if I have an IPA or some other ale, I’m fine with just one. So now a $15 4-pack of lager costs me twice as much as a $15 4-pack of IPA because it only lasts me 2 days instead of 4 in theory.

My other thing is that even locally here in MA, it’s not just JA pricing their lagers economically. We also have Fort Hill who makes quality lagers and offers them at the same price as a bud light. ($7 a sixer of 12 ounce cans/bottles).

I know every brewery’s costs and cash flows are different. But when you see a couple breweries being able to offer quality lagers economically, you can’t help find yourself asking “why can’t others?” I assume more breweries could but that they choose to adopt a different pricing strategy.

 

And therein lies the issue.

 

My objection is limited to the AALs and the like that I've seen. Send some of those $10 ones and I'll be happy to scoop them up.

 

Do you think the contrary? That no other breweries can possibly price their lager cheaper? That all other breweries are pricing their lagers at cost+x% markup rather than a market-driven pricing strategy?

 

I think that cost depends on myriad issues.

- How your beer is sold (in-person only, distro'd, mail order available?)
- What your facility situation is (own outright? Lease or mortgage payment?)
- How much you pay your employees
- On-site canner or do you have to use a mobile service?
- What do your ingredient contracts look like?
- What is your immediate plan and what is your long-term plan for profits and revenue (do you have super wealthy owners? Do they have a second job? Is this their only income stream?)

So, yes, I do think the contrary. And I do think trying to distill it down to "Jacks Abby can price their beer at X so that means everyone else can too" is, if I'm being charitable, misguided.

 

The determination of pricing an AAL American lager is certainly up to the brewer. It has to reflect their costs and marketing consideration. The problem is that the style might not allow enough range in taste to provide a good price to quality ratio. Many regional and national brewers offered "prestige" brands in the 70s to challenge Michelob: Coors Herman Joseph, Stroh Signature, Schlitz Erlanger, Hamms Waldech, Horlachers Perfection, Henry Weinhards HWPR, Pabst Andeker, Schmidt (PA) Prior brands, Huber Augsburger etc., etc. A lot of these tasted not too different from the flagship brand. Michelob in the 70s certainly wasn't too different from Bud. Augsburger was a good German-style lager, and had some success. HWPR was popular. Andeker was distinctive. But most didn't make a dent in the market.

 

You’re putting words in my mouth. I never claimed, “Jack’s can price their beer at X so that means everyone else can too”. The spirit of my original post is, because I can find 2 breweries just from looking within an hour radius of me, who do price QUALITY lagers (not AALs) economically, one would think ‘could more breweries could do the same’? How many or what % of breweries, who the hell knows. But as long as there’s evidence of it being done, it’s perfectly logical to think so. I’m not pointing at specific breweries either because costs and cash flow vary differently from business to business just as you pointed out, as do pricing strategies.

 

I think to determine if their lager pricing is bogus, you need to look at how their overall pricing is.

For example, if a brewery’s New England IPAs are $16 per 4 pack, but their lagers are still $15 per 4 pack, well that’s fishy.

I don’t have examples off the top of my head, but I feel as if breweries that charge more for their lagers, also charge more for their IPAs. So if you see a brewery with $16-18 dollar lagers, their IPAs are usually in the $20-24 range.

 

Spyglass fits that bill. $19-$20 IPAs and a few $15-$16 lagers.

But then you have Medusa that’s seems to have most everything in the $14-$16 range.

Small sample but maybe it supports that it’s highly variable. I always fall back to the Alchemist. Could easily charge more but choose not to. They make everyone’s pricing look bogus.

 

I think it's hard to compare pricing across regions (no less breweries). Vermont beer pricing in general is much cheaper comparatively to other states in New England. Barring production and real estate costs, breweries can only charge what the market will bear. Breweries in MA are able to charge more for a 4 pack because more people are willing to buy it. First and foremost breweries will price both their 4 packs and draft beers based on what local expectations are. If local bars charge $7 for a 16 oz pour (of craft beer) then a brewery is going to have a hard time getting those locals to pay $10 at their brewery. Same thing with 4 packs unless a brewery can convince you that their quality is worth the increased price.

We assume that breweries could charge more than they do without fully understanding their financial model or their goals (selling beer quickly means that your beer tends to be fresher which indirectly increases your quality, consistent quality increases demand). The cost models are much more complicated than what they can charge IMHO.

 

Are MA craft beer drinkers to a large extent locavores? What presence do broader distributed craft beers (e.g., craft beer with close to a nationwide distribution) have at the packies (that is what you call the places you buy packaged beer, right?)? Do these non-MA beers price their products lower like they do outside of MA or do they 'take advantage' here and price comparably to the higher priced four-packs?

And high(er) prices will continue unless sales decline (i.e., people decide to not pay $16+ for a four-pack).

Cheers!