Stoneface is making an American Adjunct Lager

First off, I think most MA craft beer drinkers think of local as anything from New England. I consider Allagash as a local craft beer even though its from Maine. I'd say we'd probably prefer MA local over NE local but I *think* most people still consider anything in New England to be local. Based on the amount of local beer in most craft beer stores I'd say we are largely locavores.

Ha, yes that term is used but like most Boston words (or the accent itself) it's not as widely used as rumored. Personally I probably would only use the word "packie" if I was going to a place that sells mostly beers like Bud Light. Even then I use it less and less. When I was 21, lived closer to Boston, and hung around with people who all were born in the area I probably used that word all the time and had a decent Boston accent.

My experience is that larger brands like Founders, Firestone-Walker, etc. get less and less shelf space in the craft beer oriented stores recently (Firestone actually stopped distributing recently here). They are very prevalent in the Grocery stores (which is somewhat rare in MA) and in larger liquor stores (packies). Breweries like Toppling Goliath and 3 Floyds who distribute in MA show up more in the craft beer stores. I think for both the prices are not higher than other states (not significantly that is). I have a friend in Florida and he pays about the same as I would for Cigar City Jai Alai for instance. The interesting thing is that there are lots of beers I can buy these days that are really good and a decent amount cheaper than some of the more expensive local beers. This includes local beers that are cheaper as well, there are more and more of those.

For my tastes, a few years ago there was a wide gap between the expensive local beers ($17-$24 per 4 pack) and the next tier down. I was excited when I'd get some beer from Tree House or Trillium, it was a treat. I am having a hard time justifying going to one of those places anymore, I don't need to try a slightly different IPA from the previous version and spending in the neighborhood of $100 (sometimes more) for a case of beer that at best is only moderately better than what I can get for around 25-50% less. I'd much rather buy a keg of local beer in the range of $100-130 for an IPA and then happily spend $4+ per can for something different from someplace like Notch, Amory's Tomb, etc. (all non IPA's). The same can probably be said for some stouts as well (especially BA stouts).

 

On the other hand you have breweries like Counterweight and New England Brewing who's IPA pricing is so reasonable, I'm OK with their lager pricing being the same. Example, Headway, Counterweight's flagship IPA, is $10.99 a four pack. So is their Flagship pilsner, Workhorse. Same with six packs of Sea Hag and Elm City Lager from NEBCO. I'll happily pay those prices for those lagers.

 

I suppose that most MA craft beer consumers infrequently (some not at all?) purchase these more economical yet really good beers? If more of the MA craft beer consumers purchased these instead there might be more pressure on the so called "Top Tier" breweries to lower there high(er) prices?

FWIW I personally refuse to pay $16+ for four-packs since I can buy beers that are just as good for close to 10 bucks a six-pack. But needless to say other beer consumers (e.g., Haze Bros) are very happy to spend large amounts of money to buy their beers. Perhaps for them paying 20 bucks a four-pack equates to drinking the 'best' beers?

Cheers!

 

Sweden is a famously high tax country when it comes to alcohol, including beer. Sweden also has high corporate taxes and high wages/payroll taxes. Swedes travel to Denmark and Germany in droves to buy beer in bulk due to lower taxes and prices. The US dollar is currently strong against the Swedish crown, at 9.30 crowns per USD. Most craft beers run between 20-35 crowns per 33cl, or 2.1-3.7 USD per 33cl bottle. That makes 12.60-22.2 USD per six pack (we don't have volume discounts). Craft lager beers tend to run around 20-21 crowns per 33cl, while APAs, IPAs, DIPAs, and NEIPAs tend to run the gamut from 20-35 crowns per 33cl. IPAs, DIPAs, NEIPAs and newer breweries American style hoppy ales tend to run around 25-32 crowns per 33 cl.

A while back I bought 7 different high quality craft pilsners which cost around 20-21 crowns per 33 cl, coming from established and new craft breweries, differing in size between maybe 25 000 barrels for the largest craft breweries and maybe 800 barrels for the middle sized breweries. I.e much, much smaller than American standards. So the six pack equivalent of around 13 dollars.

So it's surprising to me me to see some American craft beer prices being equal to Swedish prices. It reminds me of the price inflation generated by the newer breweries and their hoppy beers in the last few years, with prices going from 20 crowns per bottle to 25 crowns to 32 crowns per bottle, which seem to sell quite well. The only reasonable conclusion that I can draw from this is that American craft breweries prefer their profit margins to be high per unit of sale. Whereas in a high tax country such as Sweden the government gets most of the margins, in the US the business owner gets the margins.

I personally wouldn't dream of paying Swedish prices without Swedish taxes. But plenty of sought after American breweries appear to achieve just that.

 

I'm curious about these 10 bucks/six-pack beers that are just as good. Here in Brooklyn, $16/4 is usually considered a low price for almost anything. The cheapest decent beer is mostly from bigger breweries like SN, but they are still not cheaper than $12. Certainly, nothing local is that cheap. That being said, almost everywhere lagers are $1-$3 cheaper than IPAs. In VT and MA, everything might be about $1 cheaper, but the trend is the same. Except for breweries like the Alchemist or Von Trapp that price all beers the same, the higher the ABV and the more hops are being used, the higher is the price.

 

In my opinion it is just a case of some US craft beer drinkers being willing to spend a lot for 'special' craft beer. It would be silly for breweries like Tree House, Trillium, Maine, Suarez, Other Half (and on and on) to not charge $16+ for a four-pack of beer. Their customers are happy to pay this amount.

But as I discussed above there are plenty of choices for more economically priced high quality beer brands (at least in my area). Needless to say but that would be beer from breweries that are not super hyped.

Cheers!

 

Their willingness seems evident. The motive for their willingness I am less clear about. I imagine those higher margins allow those breweries to more quickly expand their breweries and either reduce their dependency on loans for expansion (paying for expansions with cash flow rather than loans to a greater extent) or get better conditions for loans that they do take based on their increased margins and profits. Which in turn increases profits once certain volumes of production are achieved and any loans are paid down sufficently. And of course the market is larger with 30 times the population.

A large craft brewery in the US is a huge brewery by Swedish standards. 1 million barrels would rival one of the smaller macros here yet be equivalent to Sierra Nevada in the US.

 

You may be right but I don’t think this holds true for the Alchemist at this point. They could easily charge even $1 more per 4-pack and everyone would still buy them in droves. I feel their pricing is more altruistic or maybe I’m just naive.

 

You and me both brother! I have read many a post on BA threads where folks express that people should not complain about high prices for "Top Tier" brewery prices. I guess there are just people who think that 'special' craft breweries 'deserve' to be paid more money? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cheers!

 

Firstly, I agree with your statement that The Alchemist could charge more if they chose to and customers would be OK with that.

FWIW I am of the opinion that John Kimmich is charging what he thinks is a reasonable price (the aspect of altruism that you mentioned). He is making enough money with this pricing structure for him (and other investors?) and to pay good wages to his employees.

Cheers to John Kimmich (et al) for pricing his beers reasonably!

 

Any chance you can name these more economically priced high-quality beer brands? Thanks!

 

Sometimes I feel if you can make an argument that the beer you buy that’s $1 more than the other is far too much for a 4 pack.

You buy and consume a fuck ton of beer and that is more of the problem.

 

Sure, I regularly purchase a variety of brands from Mainstay, Sly Fox, Sterling Pig, Troegs and a number of other breweries.

Cheers!

 

I should have added Victory to that list. I have already purchased three 15-packs of Classic Lager so far this year.

Cheers!

 

Thanks for the reply. I'm only familiar with Sly Fox, Troegs, and Victory, but don't see them or buy them often. It seems that what they offer now is targeted to a different crowd. Of all three Victory used to be great, but they discontinued most of their good stuff. Instead, there are several mediocre IPAs and never-ending Monkey variants. Classic Lager was also a big disappointment. I would rather buy slightly stale German exports than any of the mentioned beers or spend a little more on Jack's Abby or Von Trapp, or even more on excellent Wild East in Brooklyn, Tree House in MA, Schilling in NH, Tonewood in NJ, etc.

 

De gustibus non est disputandum.

Cheers!

 

"I refuse to pay $16 a 4-pack" is an absolutely ludicrous sentence to read in 2021.

 

I was going to continue replying to the pricing threads but decided I'd pivot back to Stoneface specifically. We visited their taproom over the weekend and had a really great time. The food was excellent, the service fantastic, and the beer was great. I think it might be my new favorite place to visit. They are a great example of a brewery that can make excellent NE IPA's (as well as everything else) and at reasonable costs.

It was an excellent day trip overall, we stopped at Fort McClary in Kittery and at Lickee's and Chewy's up in Dover for dessert. If we had more time I would have stopped at Tributary and Garrison City but we had my two teenagers with us and I was trying to avoid overspending too much on beer (because I was heading to Portland the next day and visiting more breweries).

 

I'll BeerMail you my info to start that Go-Fund-Me page.

Seriously, too many good beers out there from breweries that aren't trying to gouge me. Yet.

 

Haha no I'm being serious. Even for most 'cheaper' breweries in 2021, $16 is like, the baseline average. Jacks Abby, Troegs, 3 Floyds, some other shit will be cheaper but for the most part you're shelling out $16 for a 4-pack even if you stay away from "hyped" breweries or IPA/fruited sour factories.

So for somebody to be like "I will flat-out not pay $16," okay, your choice obviously, but there goes 75% of the stock in any beer store right off the rip.