How “Far” Beer Has Come…

Well typical interwebs, we go round and round and we go from one thing to another. I have never said it should be regulated, but if we are talking about "ancient" brewing cultures so much, there might be more to it than brewery makes, customer buys, so brewery makes more. Without looking at the actual economic and historical context of said culture, there can be other factors that drive what and how those cultures make "beer". Or at least thats a question I'm asking as again I don't know? Then there is a technological/science and resource angle. And I don't thing we are archaeologists that can answer these in a modern capitalist ideology kind of way...

As far as nostalgia, yes that is driving some industry, like movies, Netflix in some way (Star Wars remakes, Ghost Buster remakes, Bill & Ted, Stranger Things, on and on) Thats a trend I'm seeing in brewing now as well, maybe I'm off on that but for me that makes some sense. Anyway, thats all I've got for this topic.

 

Whatever any of this rambling conjecture means, if anything, people in any culture buy beer they like, don't buy beer they dislike, and commercial brewers in any culture brew beer to sell. This is true even if some mythical factors beyond what we can observe or imagine are involved that motivate their choices of styles to make.

 

Very insightful! That's what happened to me.

 

Reading this thread is making my mind wander to the pretzel caramel Oreo cream stout in my fridge. Mmmm. Beer.

 

I think what @champ103 is getting at is that the history of beer is much deeper than just selling the masses cheaply made nostalgia. It has always been a cultural beverage that held a respected place within its community as a symbol of both agricultural and artistic achievement.

for some of us, its depressing when that place of esteem is held by a beverage that relies on cheap imported sugars and lab produced artificial flavors that strive to deliver a children's cereal liqueur. Its all good, people should drink what they enjoy. And it's also OK for people to wish better for our favorite intoxicant.

 

We can pretend that in the past things were better, worse, different, even to a degree we can't comprehend, or that beer was considered the representative of God's kingdom on earth, or the lowliest beverage on earth, or the result of magic spoons, or the greatest invention of its time, or the work of the Devil himself.

And still people would not drink/buy what they dislike, and commercial brewers would brew beer to sell to those people. Just as it is now. Same as it ever was. No matter how much lipstick this pig wears it will remain a pig.

 

You're free to have and enjoy your own opinion, that doesn't make your assertions true. By many historical accounts we live in unusual times. Our society is arranged in an uncommon way, historically speaking, and our consumption habits reflect that. Trix kettle sours and chicken and waffle quads are definitely technically beer most of the time. That doesn't make them typical of beverages labeled beer over the last couple millenia

 

I have a can of Pineapple IPA that continually gets re-gifted any time my beer-drinking buddies get together at one of our houses. Wretched stuff.

 

The trouble with thinking in those terms is you put values on peoples' enjoyments, making one enjoyment for one reason not as valuable as an enjoyment for a different reason. There is nothing regrettable, bad, or different about wanting a Chocula beer, or any beer. It says one thing, people are different and enjoy many things many different ways. It says nothing logical about anything, it says nothing with great cultural insight that isn't explained by subjective, localized, personal preference. Without this bias in thinking, the ideas I present are simple and irrefutable. There is nothing that is better or worse about a person's desire to have a beer he desires for one reason versus another person's desire to have a beer for another reason. We don't get to judge other peoples' desires as better or worse than our own in logic. This is true now, it was true then, it will be true in the future.

 

how "far" the "invisible hand of the free market" argument has come....

we're debating if 16th century brits and bavarians would've drunk count chocula beer if offered.

 

That is some kinda pitiful. They really should be embarrassed.

 

Indeed. Hard to believe folks would need explanations that beer made with strange/new/unfamiliar ingredients and techniques isn't the end of beer culture, civilization, or the universe. Or that beer always has been made with ingredients and in ways other times and cultures might not recognize or agree with. Or that people always have consumed what they enjoy to consume and.. gasp, gasp, gasp... those things often are different from place to place and time to time. But here we are

 

or that brewers of sub-standard beers have always attempted to hide their inability to produce a stand-out beverage by adding all manner of silly junk....

 

Really. I read that there was all kinds of fuss when brewers switched from bog myrtle to hops so as to hide the deficiencies of their beer.

 

I don't always agree with @cavedave, but I think he is spot-on in this regard.
In a related point, I have detected a common thread throughout a lot of different BA posts on various subjects which I find disappointing, and that is the idea that some opinions and preferences are more/less defensible or worthy than others. Opinions and preferences are not facts. They are not right or wrong. I hate the idea that self-proclaimed experts or aficionados deem those newer, weirdly flavored beers "unworthy" of shelf space and that people who actually "like" those beverages should therefore be denied their opportunity to buy them. A whole pile of BA Karma points doesn't mean someone becomes judge, jury and executioner for evaluating the worthiness of evolving trends in beverages or the people who drink them.

 

hmm. hadn't heard that. maybe they shoulda just added more bog myrtle?

 

it's true. as they said on the spongebob episode about crabby o'mondays: "we find that most people are quite satisfied with the contrived and the mediocre."

 

in all seriousness, tho. I have always agreed with @cavedave about this being a movement about "better beer." we all have our ways of getting to the point of producing "better" beer. I think the point some are making here is that adding count chocula may not be one of those ways. but, again, some others may feel otherwise.

EDIT: and the point I've been trying to make about adding cereal and syrup is that you're running the risk as a brewer of beer of losing your clientele instead of expanding it. what happens if, say, a majority of folks find they just want the syrup flavors without the underlying malt? someone may come along as a producer of, say, seltzer water, and decide to capitalize on that fact and steal your customers. then, nothing much has been done for beer and the consumer in such a case.

 

I wouldn't call any of these beers that I think of as childish the "end of beer culture", but I do think that a trend towards beer that are more fruit puree than anything else or beers that are made to taste like mass produced children's cereal by adding...mass produced children's cereal definitely does more harm than good to a beverage culture (craft beer, micro brew, better beer, whatever you want to call it) that had hung its reputation on producing a higher quality beverage than those beer factories that treat beer like a commodity.

 

Right on. I have commented a lot and part of it is I see this from the point of view I can't help feeling, that of a classical music lover who is in a world where other lovers stand above all other music. They complain bitterly about the state of music today,(can you even call it music?), and the awful destruction of music culture are these worthless modern trends, they're simple minded noise.

It's embarrassing, frankly, to have to see that amount of arrogance and closed mindedness among folks with whom I share the same musical love. I admit I get triggered when I see it pop up, to any degree, in other of my hobbies.

Cheers all! Here's to better beer! Thanks for a great and respectful conversation.