What’s the Difference? Share your Side-by-Side (2022)

Discussion in 'The Bar' started by cjgiant, Jan 2, 2022.

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  1. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Brasserie Orval - Orval

    Belgian Pale Ale sampled at 1, 6 and 36 months old, from Belgium (6.9%)

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    I already did a comparitive tasting of 3 and 24 month old Orval last year and was lucky enough to manage to get a hold of a 1 month old bottle after the 6 month old one I had originally planned to drink side-by-side with the 36 month old bottle. So I decided to go with a threeway for this tasting, which may have yielded kinda predictable results, but was still quite interesting.

    I was a little surprised by just how much more fresh, hoppy and bitter the 1M was compared to the 6M, which really was significant, with the 6M feeling a bit more malty and estery. This continues between the 6M and the 36M, of course, with the 36 still managing a small, but surprising amount of hoppy bitterness and not feeling that much complex than the 6M, but being signficantly maltier, while light oxidation notes are also starting to show here.

    Having had Orval at 1, 3, 6, 24 and 36 months old now, I have loved all vintages of it, but at the same time it's becoming more clear to me that I prefer it fresh, as I do love that hoppy bitterness and citrus zest while it doesn't really seem to be getting all that much more complex at some point, just more malty, stale and oxidized.

    I can still quite appreciate it at 24 months, as it kinda turns from a Pale Ale into a Saison, but that really is the cut-off point for me, as it seems to just become more stale and oxidized, rather than complex in my personal opinion. While it's really not that bad at 36 months, I never quite understood how oxidation, generally considered a flaw in beer, is suddenly perceived as a good thing for certain styles, which I disagree with.

    Overall, this experiment has once again reinforced to me that beer is meant to be consumed fresh, no matter the style, except perhaps for Geuze. I still found the 36 month old bottle enjoyable and it's really not that oxidized, but I still clearly prefered it fresher, which kinda makes me look less forward to the two bottles in my cellar that I'm planning to drink at 4 and 5 years old, but we'll see.

    EDIT: Temperature is definitely a facor here as well, which is quite interesting. Now that they have warmed up quite a bit, the 1M feels quite a bit less bitter and more floral, while this change is not as significant in the 6M, which somehow feels more balanced and enjoyable at a warmer temperature now. I already finished the 36M, but I really cannot stress enough how much more enjoyable the 1M was cold than warm, which probably shouldn't come as huge surprise, but still.
     
    #101 Snowcrash000, Feb 24, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2022
  2. Sheppard

    Sheppard Grand Pooh-Bah (3,516) Mar 16, 2013 Massachusetts
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    I think your assessment is fair and accurate. I did not have 1.0. I thought that 3.0 was solid given the constraints but I think that I would rather drink a fuller 4%/4.5% beer than more beer at 3% right now, if I'm having a session. I will continue to try/support the Here Comes A Regular series but I would much rather have The Standard.
     
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  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Some Brett is added at bottling which should express more Brett'y flavors with time in the bottle (e.g., 6 months of aging). Did you notice this in these beers? Specifically, did the 6 month (and older) bottles have more barnyard flavors vs. the fresh (1 month) bottle?

    Cheers!
     
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  4. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    To be honest, I really can't say that I perceived significantly more funk in the 36 month bottle, which came as a bit of a surprise to me, as this was my expectation as well. There certainly were some more estery and lightly funky flavors in the older vintages, but this was not nearly as significant as I had expected.
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Firstly, permit me to caveat that I have never tasted such an old (36 month) bottle.

    My guess is that the challenge of taste testing a very old bottle is that there would be a 'battle' between the flavors that develop due to oxidation vs. other flavors (e.g., barnyard from the Brett addition). I would suggest that the 6 month bottle would be 'best' to perceive barnyard since at 6 months the flavors from oxidation would be more subdued and the Brett'y flavors should be easier to perceive.

    Cheers!
     
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  6. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think that 6 months is not quite old enough to develop significant barnyard flavors and, from memory, I will say that the bottle I had at 24 months last year was probably best when it comes to this, which is why I mentioned it as the cut-off point. There was definitely some more barnyard character to it, without it feeling overly oxidized.
     
  7. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Right on, makes sense. I mean, it’s world’s better than Bud Light at 4.2%.

    And to be clear, I’m not knocking this beer at all. Also, I do dig Budweiser. That was just one of the first things that came to mind, not sure why.

    I had this on tap at the brewery too and still felt it tasted similar.

    Yup, it was 2.4%. Version 2.0 was 2.8% I believe.

    Yup, agreed. However, I think I bought at least two four packs of Version 1.0. I really liked that beer, and not just for the ABV. I thought the malt profile was the most rounded and full of all three versions. It was maybe 90ish% of what a 10 or even 12 degree Plato Czech pale lager are.
     
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  8. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    I agree for the most part. Except cask ale, which improves over a few days with oxygen, but that’s not really the same thing.

    You mean you enjoy the 1M more cold than warm? And if so, was it not good when warm?
     
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  9. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think there were some issues with my edit there. Anyway, yeah, I though that the 1M turned more floral and less bitter as it warmed, although that may be simply due to time as well, it turning more stale.
     
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  10. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,989) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Cross posted from the Cellaruary thread

    2009 vs. 2019 DFH World Wide Stout

    The fresh(er) bottle opens with a pop, the older bottle opens with a faint hiss. 2009 pours with just a thin layer of bubbles that quickly fades. 2019 pours with a lovely head that sticks around as I drink the glass.

    2009 aroma is a ton of dark chocolate, plum, fig, and a bit of smoke, and tobacco. similar extremely rich, deep flavors in the taste, starts sweet but a touch of umami and booze in the finish. viscous but smooth mouthfeel, just enough carbonation left. 2019 as it warms is smokier than the 2009, more leather, and a bit less of the fruit notes. quite pleasant, but different. taste is drier than the older beer, and the taste follows the aroma. less boozy, based on drinking a bunch of vintages of this beer, I think DFH has improved the production of this beer to eliminate the harshness of this beer when its fresh. similar body and mouthfeel as the older bottle.

    Overall both are a pleasure to drink, but in this case I prefer the 12+ year old version. This is the only stout I have experience with that I would again age anywhere near this long. Chalk another one up in the column of the cellared beers!
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Blogjackets

    Blogjackets Grand Pooh-Bah (4,816) Nov 22, 2017 Ohio
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    Back-to-back dogs for me this afternoon thanks to Thirsty Dog. First up is one of my favorite stouts - Siberian Night. A big Russian imperial stout coming in at 9% ABV. A multiple award winning beer, I love that its malty char is featured and not obscured. Light notes of coffee and an assertive hoppiness make this stout a favorite. Not sampled today is the wonderful bourbon barrel version of this beer.
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    Next up is Coffee Siberian Night. Also 9% and new to their canned line. The head on this variant was nice but dissipated more quickly than the standard and there was less lacing.

    The malty roastiness remains but is supported by a bold coffee flavor. The flavor has a similar hoppiness, but the finish is a bit smoother, drier. Perhaps a glimpse of chocolate in the finish. Overall a good, safe variant of a solid stout.
     
  12. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
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    Been a few weeks since I've delved into a side-by-side, and I had the idea to do one today. Then I found I hadn't put the newest vintage of the intended beer in the fridge with the others. So, I corrected that to allow those beers to be judged at the same temperature. And then I saw these two beers in the fridge - which could've maybe snuck in to last month's Cellaruary thread, though they are both under a year since purchased.

    The first beer is from a new Virginia brewery we visited later last summer, and was a standout farmhouse brew. Wheatland Spring is a farm brewery that seems to focus as much on saison and other farmhouse styles (including some wild fermentation) as the styles that a wider range of customers might enjoy.

    The other beer was one that jumped to near the top of my all time favorite beers when I had it at the brewery. It seemed to come to earth with some age I didn't necessarily mean to give it, and that was a couple months ago I found that out. Hill Farmstead is... well, Hill Farmstead.

    So, let the battle of [damn near king] Arthur and the upstart Westerly begin (and yes, I do want to see which I like better, although I'd have loved this battle with two fresh bottles).
    [​IMG]

    The Vermont brew has a very light white haze to it, where the Virginia brew is a basically clear golden color. Both still produce decent heads, with Arthur seeming a tad more creamy, but Westerly maintains a thicker collar. I'm giving an ever so slight edge to the Wheatland Spring beer here, but it's only enough to be a dead even tie-breaker type advantage. (Actually, it was washed out be lacing after I drank a little of each)

    That advantage is washed out in the nose. I was getting a familiar scent as I went to take pics, and I was pretty sure it was coming from Arthur. A quick sniff of Westerly and I knew it wasn't going to win the nose. It has a dirty type of earthy note to it, with a mix of tart citrus and wild flowers in the middle of a dry summer. Some dusty wood notes lean a little towards cardboard, unfortunately.

    Arthur has a lovely mix of fruit tartness, light vinegar tang, and a hint of farmhouse funk. Age hasn't hurt the makeup of the nose at all. Taking a sip, the saison is clean and doesn't bring any extra carbonation at this point. It's not as soft as I recall, and the flavors seem to have more distinct edges in the opening. Grain gets a distinct addition of citrus, then finally the yeast seem to bring things together. The profile is quite good, but seems to have wilted in my cellar a bit (6 months to be approximate).

    Westerly is sweeter, relatively, out of the gate. It also seems more completely composed from the get-go. That composition, however, is less complex than that of Arthur. It, too, has suffered from life in the cellar (I want to say up to a couple months older than Arthur). The floral notes that I assume are coming from the yeast have the most influence. Warmth brings a hint of minty grass in the late bitterness.

    Looking at my review, I enjoyed a bit of tartness in Westerly on tap, and noted a bit of herbal notes joined in the first bottle we had. This and my overall pure enjoyment of both beers when I first had them drew me to this comparison. What I liked about Westerly is pretty much gone now - faded into the ecosystem that is our downstairs refrigerator. Arthur better held on to what drew it to me, but isn't one I would intentionally age beyond a couple months given another chance.

    Oh, since this is already quite long, the GF questioned whether these were similar styles, given how different they seemed to her. She thought Westerly was quite bland, and thought Arthur was more sour-like (she was aware they were aged a little bit). In the end, we both clearly enjoyed the Hill Farmstead beer at this point.

    I also don't think Westerly would win in a fresh matchup, as there's just enough in both beers to remind me of each when I had them at their source. Different, thoroughly enjoyable experiences that can't be compared like the beers, themselves.
     
  13. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
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    Brasserie Rochefort - Trappistes Rochefort 10 / Brouwerij St. Bernadus - Abt 12

    Belgian Quadrupels from Belgium (11.3%) / (10%).

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    Upon pouring there's already a significant different in looks, with the A12 pouring somewhat darker, with a larger, more creamy and stable head, while the R10 has got some visible carbonation to it that the A12 lacks. This continues in the mouthfeel, with the R10 being distinctly more carbonated, with the A12 feeling just a little flat in comparison, while the R10 feels just a tad more full in mouthfeel as well.

    The aroma is different as well here, with the malts seeming a bit more toasted and not quite as caramelly as the R10 for the A12, with the R10 generally having quite a bit more rich aroma, with the dark fruits standing out particularly in comparison to the A12.

    This continues in the taste, although the way the hops are used here is coming out a lot more as well, being quite a bit more floral for the A12 and bitter for the R10, which kinda goes hand-in-hand with the more toasted malts for the A12 and more caramelly malts for the R10. The R10 generally feels a bit richer, although also slightly more boozy to me, while also being a bit better balanced for my personal taste, feeling a little more bitter and spicy despite having a more distinct brown sugar note as well. The dark fruits are also distinctly richer for the R10, leaning a bit towards plum than figs, as well as slightly spice accents of clove and allspice.

    While these beers actually felt a lot more similar to me now than my old notes would suggest, I still definitely prefer the R10 over the A12, since its balance is more to my personal taste, feeling a bit more spicy and bitter and also somewhat richer overall, which is of course easily explained by the higher ABV, which also makes the R10 feel a bit more boozy though, which I'm not to keen on. It could probably be argued that the A12 is a bit more subtle, which is a good thing in my book, but the overall balance just makes me prefer the R10 at the end of the day nonetheless.

    EDIT: I also blended the remnants of these beers at about a 1:1 ratio and found the result quite plesant, probably better than each of them individually, to be honest.
     
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Were these two beers of comparable age?

    I have homebrewed several batches of Quad and I always wait a minimum of 6 months from bottling before really drinking those beers and my personal preference is at least 1 year in the bottle (and up to 5 years in the bottle) to permit the dark dried fruit flavors to become more prominent (an oxidation flavor).

    Cheers!
     
  15. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,041) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Unfortunately I have no way of knowing how old they were, which is not ideal for a comparative tasting, but they were both purchased from the same shop at the same time. I would guess that they were relatively fresh though, as hints of hops were noticeable in both of them.

    Personally, I'm not a great fan of oxidation in beer, even for those styles were it is deemed beneficiary. You already get some dark fruit flavor from the malt, which becomes more prominent as the hops fade, and as the fruity notes imparted by oxidation grow stronger, so does that certain cardboard character as well, at least from my experience. I also kinda dislike the kind of dark fruit flavors imparted by oxidation, which tend to verge a lot on red fruit, with that certain, sherry-esque character that I personally find unpleasant.

    The best example of this to me is a bottle of 5 year-old Aventinus I had some time ago, which was oxidized to the point where I really didn't find it very enjoyable anymore, despite having gained a certain, more profound richness compared to a fresh bottle. I also didn't enjoy a 3 year-old bottle of Orval very much because of the oxidation.
     
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  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Yup, cellaring beer is indeed a subjective hobby.

    For my palate my homebrewed Quads reach peak flavor in the 1-2 year range but I still enjoy them at 2+ years. I personally have never perceived cardboard in these beers at several years of age but the dried dark fruit flavors are indeed prominent.

    Cheers!
     
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  17. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,989) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
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    Doing a side by side of the Workhorse/Cape May Black version (brewed at Workhorse) with another locally brewed Black IPA, Well Crafted's No Disintegrations. I'll refer to these as CFTSC and ND
    [​IMG]
    On paper there are a few differences: ND is 7% abv brewed with Ale yeast and hops used are Azacca, Chinook, Cascade, Idaho 7, and Columbus. CFTSC is 6% abv brewed with Lager yeast, and I can find references to dry-hopping with Citra, Bru-1, Rakau hops.

    CFTSC is just a shade lighter when held up to the light. Both have great head retention. ND aroma is a bit stronger - a bit roastier, and hops are earthier. CFTSC aroma is a bit fruiter and sweeter malt. CFTSC taste follows the aroma and fairly smooth and not much bitterness. ND is again bolder and high level of bitterness. mouthfeel for both is similar - medium bodied and carbonation level. Overall quite different approaches to this style. Both are enjoyable but in different ways
     
    #117 jmdrpi, Mar 22, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2022
  18. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
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    Ok, a comparison to get me rolling down the back side of the mid-week hump. This one is a vertical I was considering for Cellaruary, but never got around to it. This is a classic, Ten FIDY by Oskar Blues - and there's three years involved. Unfortunately the print on the reflective silver-bottomed cans is small that I had to hope the dates were legible, but they are not:
    [​IMG]

    But from left to right, we have a... well shit, I smudged the date. I could find it by looking at another can, but I'm pretty sure it's a 2021 (the month starts with a 0, for what little that is worth) So, the middle is 10/2019 and the right one is from 10/2015 (and I think I have just one more of that year left).

    So the first thing to note is that the 2019 has a more active head, puffing up and slowly cratering while the others build more solidly and fell without much lacing. Of the latter, the newer beer stabilized with a little more volume than the 2015.
    [​IMG]

    The 2015 is the most roasty, and I think the light oxidation is feeding this. To be honest, I didn't quite notice the oxidation until I sniffed the 2019. The beers generally lessened in bitter roast and gained some fruitiness. The 2021 had the lightest strength of aroma, and had a slight marshmallow sweet edge comparatively.

    The 2021 is pretty heavy, but doesn't have a thick feel to it, with a moderate carbonation. The 2019 has the same heft, but is more coating and smoother. The 2015 is smooth, with less carbonation than the other two. It falls between the two in thickness. I sort of wonder if the thicker feel is what led to the more structured head.

    The 2021 has a licorice edge to it relative to the others. The 2019 seems the sweetest, and that seems to fit with its thicker feel. It has a brief hit of spice similar to the 2021, but the bitterness invades and crescendos near the end of the taste.

    The 2015 is not as sweet as the 2019, but overall resembles that year more than the newest year. Since I've often drunk aged Ten FIDYs, this one is the most familiar to me, but I think the noticeable (but far from overwhelming) oxidation is a part of it. It's bitterness starts at the opening, and is much more even-keeled throughout compared to the 2019.

    Ideally, the 2019 would be a little less sweet (edit: sweet is totally relative here, it's far from the sweeter stouts we find today), but I think I like it just a bit more than the 2015. Perhaps it's my familiarity with this beer aged that led to me liking the 2015 despite some oxidation, but the 2021 has a little fresh spice that cuts the bitterness more than the 2019s sweetness does.


    The GF's first comment was, "These don't taste that different, do they?"

    After some warmth, she found the 2019 had more licorice than the 2021, reversing my thoughts of the two beers. She thought the 2015 was the most flavorful, without any licorice, and the 2021 had the least strength/distinction of flavors. I agree with her thoughts on the 2021 in the sense that it seemed to have the least progression in profile. Overall, she liked the 2015 and 2021 about the same for different reasons.

    So she changed her mind from her original thought. And in the end, we officially liked them all :grinning:
     
    #118 cjgiant, Mar 24, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2022
  19. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,989) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
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    Cross posted from the Tripel tasting thread:

    In the Tripel Tasting planning thread, I started some discussion about how much real difference there is between beers categorized as "Tripel" vs. "Belgian Strong Blonde/Pale" (vs. just differences between individual beers). So I wanted to do a blind side-by-side with two prime examples that I had on hand - Westmalle Tripel and Delirium Tremens. I had my wife pour these blind, I didn't know which was A or B.

    These look damn near identical. Same color, same clarity, same thick creamy layer of head. Same excellent head retention and lacing as I drink. Both A and B aromas are grainy, mildly fruity esters, but B has just a bit of peppery spice. A's taste starts slightly sweet with bready malt, but with an earthy dry finish. B taste is very similar, just a touch more minerally. A and B are both thinner bodied, high carbonation, but a touch of creaminess from the head. Overall these beers are extremely similar, but if I had to guess I would guess B might be the Westmalle due to slightly more phenols...
    [​IMG]
    I ended up being right, but in this case I would say the difference between these beers is pretty minor say compared to difference between two random IPAs (or really any other style). So not really any change in my opinion.

    You can see the excellent head retention after drinking most of the glasses over the course of an hour or so and revealing which beer was which.
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
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    Since I didn't get around to certain tripel during the online tasting, I figured I'd do a comparison in this thread with one I did write up over there. The one I missed happens to be one of the beers @jmdrpi just blind tasted last post, Westmalle Tripel. The comparison companion is Allagash's Tripel.

    First note was that Wetmalle had a waft of slightly old, slightly funky aroma "from afar" as I opened and poured it. Qhat pretty quickly followed was that its head production blew Allagash's out of the water. Westmalle seemed a little too explosive, but Allagash's head seemed overly tame, considering I gave it a decently aggressive pour.

    [​IMG]
    Even though it seems in the shadows, Westmalle is a bit darker and duller than Allagash. It had a light-shading cloudiness whereas Allagash's beer ismuch nearer clear. As I typed up to this point, Westmalle held onto a cotton ball fluffy head, cratering slowly, while Allagash's head seems mostly sustained by the results of glass nucleation points.

    Westmalle's aromas thankfully don't come across as off as I expected from its opening. Allagash's aromas are more fresh and lively, with banana and fruit notes atop some bubblegum. Westmalle has a little more bubblegum, a little less banana, and more of a dusty/earthy vibe than a fruity one. I'll note here that the bottle date is 10/26/21 for the Westmalle and 12/29 for Allagash (2 months difference).

    Westmalle is a smoother brew to me as I take initial sips of both. Allagash has more carbonation in play, and seems to have a more biting spice note. That said, Westmalle does have decent carbonation, but the spice I get seems to want to do its own thing and not join the carbonation in creating an experience.

    I do get a thread of sensations similar in both - grain, banana, bubblegum, and a base spice note of clove. They diverge when Allagash adds more "high note" spice and Westmalle seems to bring more in yeast-driven banana/bubblegum and earth tones. Allagash weighs a little lighter, and Westmalle seems to coat my palate a little better, extending each sip and allowing me to savor it a bit longer.

    The GF liked the Allagash offering a little bit more, she says. When asked, she first notes that Allagash is a smoother beer (totally opposite of me), though we agree that Allagash's beer has a more powerful aroma. I mention my thoughts, and she agreed Allagash was more fruity vs earthy, and she preferred the former.
     
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