Sacred Profane Brewing Launching Summer 2022

Looks like it was still around ~50 years ago or so - I guess, it depends on one's memory (and age ) when something is "all but forgotten".

 

Isn't it kind of short sighted to get upset with a beer forum that has demographics that Sacred and Profane should be targeting? And to completely shut off comments on your instagram instead of welcoming conversation is ignorant and immature.

On top of that, as much as i love BA, it is a dying forum, so why does she even feel threatened by the discussion? Makes me think she's a little dated in what she considers relevant in the beer world. Again, love BA but not nearly as relevant in the beer world as it once was.

Brie's inability to handle constructive discourse has just as good a chance of holding the business back as only having 2 beers available.

 

Maybe she just doesn’t feel like having her business plan mansplained to her.

 

I'd say there's a pretty solid reason why comments are limited on her Instagram page (and, to that point, the business's page as well. It's not even open yet).

 

On a related note, prior to Stone opening their brewery in Berlin there was a fair bit of discussion in BA threads on this topic with Greg Koch actively participating. There were a number of BAs who questioned this business plan with comments that German beer consumers were not accustomed to paying high prices for beer, hoppy beers such as Stone IPA would be a large ‘transition’ for most German beer drinkers, how much market assessment was performed prior to the decision to open this new location, etc. IMO the back and forth between Greg and the BA community was conducted in a civil manner and both ‘sides’ expressed their views. And needless to say, we all know that this particular business plan for Stone was a failure. I would be curious to know precisely how much money was ‘wasted’ by Stone on this failed business venture but I think it is safe to say millions. It would also be interesting to know how much of the failed Stone – Berlin venture is now part of the debt that Stone is carrying:

“San Diego-based craft brewer Stone Brewing owes its investor hundreds of millions of dollars.

$464 million to be exact.”

Hind sight is always 20/20 but the fact remains that Greg Koch (and the investors in Stone Brewing Co.) would have been well served to heed the advice provided to him by a number of BAs.

Cheers!

 

Biddeford, which I do know, is a great spot for this though. It's not a big business, it's going for a certain vibe, it's avoiding portland real estate pricing but getting the burgeoning Biddeford market. It's not opening a huge place in Berlin. It doesn't need to be an insane success to make a profit. If the vibe and food is good (I'm working off the assumption the beer will be pretty great if you appreciate the style) they're going to be a solid community fixture. Now, it won't grow into a big canning op or have outposts, but it'll be fine. Crazy thought. The greater portland area doesn't need another jack of all trades brewery. A place like this makes sense. It's not "no risk" but I'd sooner back this financially than another operation with the standard handful of mediocre beers that I don't care about getting except that "meh I'm in the area. "

 

As I have already posted in this thread: "I suppose we will know more in a few years."

Cheers!

 

I don’t want to speak for @JackHorzempa but I took his post to not be a straight apples to apples comparison of business plans. But rather a broader point about being open to room for improvement, or possibly slightly shifting the business plan if necessary. Especially if you’re trying something new and unique.

However, your point isn’t lost on me either. This business plan is less risky (exponentially less), and fills a much needed niche in an area that could use it.

And as one who absolutely adores lagers, I’m rooting like hell for it. Thinking about shifting my Portland plans to July just to have a chance to go.

 

You understood my post well.

Feedback from beer consumers (in this case BAs) is something that would be worthwhile that future businesses would be wise to consider.

Look, I too am a fan of traditional lagers (as you well know), but in the US the craft beer consumer base is much broader. The number one beer style that craft beer consumers demand today is IPAs: mostly juicy/hazy IPAs but also other sub-styles like West Coast style IPAs.

I have been 'predicting' for years that lagers (e.g., Pilsners) would become more popular with craft beer drinkers. In 2016 within the New Beer Sunday thread I created a series of beer discussions I framed as "The Summer of Pilsners" with the concept that then (2016) would be the 'explosion' of lagers (Pilsners) within the craft beer consumer base. Needless to say I was 'wrong' then. While I still have my 'fingers crossed' that craft beer drinkers will recognize and financially support lagers as a 'preferred' beer style I am not 100% confident that now (2022) will be 'better' than 2016. Personally I hope that things are fundamentally different now but I personally will believe it when I see it.

Within this thread there are a number of BAs (less than a dozen I presume) who state they will be a 'supporter' of this new business but it will take thousands of customers to make this new business economically viable as a year round (365 days in a year) business.

I have no doubt that your visits (a few trips a year) will be helpful (every little bit helps) but there is a need for more customer support here especially from people who live very local to the brewery since they will (hopefully) visit more frequently (e.g., once a month or so).

Cheers!

 

No personal offense but these comments make me laugh out loud. Do you really think breweries need to check in with BA forums as some sort of consultancy to their business plans?

 

Listening to customer feedback is always a prudent choice.

Feel free to think otherwise.

And keep on laughing.

 

Customer feedback is always good. But theres no need to check in with BA specifically which is what it sounds like you were insinuating. No?

 

Aren’t BAs customers?

 

He's talking about 2 business that hadn't/haven't opened yet and "future businesses". So nobody - including BAers - are customers yet. All we can do is speculate how they should conduct their business. And brewery owners listening to strangers on a forum for business plan advice is comical to me. My advice to the brewery owner it to do what YOU want to do and what YOU feel is right. You can always find people with opinions telling you to do otherwise. And we don't need to give these forums a false sense of importance.

 

In this case those poking holes in Stone's business plan (at least in one case) was a member who's lived in Germany, speaks the language, and owns a brewery as well. That member warned that Germans may not be open to that bold of a brewery culture (IPA heavy), and especially in a location in which there was little public transportation.

Moreover, while I completely agree, BA is not a be-all end-all important being who's advice should be heeded at all times.

But I think BA can and has had influence on breweries' decisions in the past. Wasn't the whistle blower for Trillium's employee issues on here? And then they subsequently changed what they were doing?

BA can have more influence than one may think.


From a personal standpoint a professional brewer has reached out to me for advice. This was just from reading my posts on these forums. Anecdotal, and n=1, but that's at least one case in which this has happened.

 

My first instinct was to laugh off the comments too but actually, it does make some sense. Lots of brewers/owners from Stone to Sierra Nevada on down to many local breweries have in the past and even now do come on BA and interact with us. They could/could’ve used this as just another part of market research. Just a thought.

 

I get feedback all the time for various reasons (job, hobbies) and welcome all of it. Most feedback is likely garbage, but we have the ability to discard what isn't useful to us, and absorb what is.

If I owned a brewery would I come here exclusively for advice? No, we're just random people on a forum.

Would I dismiss it outright? No, wouldn't do that either.

And I'm not speaking about Sacred and Profane right now either, just in general.

 

So how are male BAs supposed to discuss a potential brewery without being accused of "mansplaining"?

She just equated her limiting comments on her posts to preventing misogyny; so now not only are we "mansplaining" for talking about a brewery opening, but it is also misogynistic?

I'll continue going to breweries that are capable of handling open dialogue without equating dissident opinion as misogyny.

 

I stumbled upon a Twitter thread (is that what they're called?) the other day in which objecting to or maybe just ridiculing the terms "crispy" and "crispy bois" was being attacked as being somehow non-inclusive.

 

I suppose Haze Bros will be the next 'target'? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cheers!