What’s the Difference? Share your Side-by-Side (2022)

"What's this interesting and unique flavor in this beer?"

"We call it Schuylkill Punch...and you'll want to see a doctor after a few of those."

 

If u consumed water out of the Schuylkill I don't think you'd reach a doctor in time lmao.

 

Ummm... I won't say who I've worked for because this seems to be an issue, but they were three of Philadelphia's biggest brewers and apart from active charcoal filtration it was just straight municipal water supply.

 

I was told as well from multiple ones that it was the same but filtered and and added chemical components like calcium or anything was added later

 

Jim, how would you characterize Philly municipal water from a brewing water perspective? All of the brewing impacting minerals (e.g., Chloride, Sulfate, Sodium, Calcium, Magnesium) in an acceptable range?

Did any of the breweries choose to augment the filtered water with mineral salts (e.g., CaCl)?

Cheers!

 

To answer both @Urk1127 and Jack, there's a reason that Philadelphia became the brewing center of the new world and not Virginia, New York, or Boston. The water has a medium mineral content making it ideal for brewing. All of the breweries that I worked with adjusted their water for different beers, but I think that's common everywhere today.

 

Well, I use filtered (3 stage carbon block filter) municipal water to brew my beers and that 'works' for the majority of the beer styles I make. The Orval type beer I discussed above was brewed with filtered municipal water. I do make some adjustments for certain beer styles (e.g., I will be adding some gypsum to the water for the English Bitter Ale I will be brewing in a few days). Another example is I dilute my filtered municipal water with some distilled water when brewing a Bohemian Pilsner.

Cheers to Philadelphia (and area) water!!!!!

 

This is why I'm so interested in brewing and always have been. The chemistry. Something that "seems so minor" has a large impact. Unrelated to philly city water. A brewery in Oaklyn....Tonewood do a lot of English styles and one thing I've noticed is that even at under 4% abv these beers are quite "hard" even astringent and I wonder if they are treating their water different than say their lagers which are way softer feeling. I know gypsum can be used to lower pH but these English style seem acidic and hot in the mouth

 

Well,...I would not phrase it as a "large" impact in most cases. For my homebrewing adjusting water makes subtle changes but I am starting with 'good' water so...

I am not sure what to say here. Maybe Jim (@NeroFiddled) might have something here?

If you are interested in reading some more about brewing water:

https://www.morebeer.com/articles/Brewing_Water

Cheers!

@cjgiant

 

Hahaha! I think that both @Urk1127 and @JackHorzempa have called it right, although differently. Jack is right that the water adjustments don't have nearly as much impact as bittering levels and so forth do BUT Urk might have hit on it (maybe maybe not) in that if you do it WRONG you've F'd it all up.

Another thing to keep in mind is that municipal water can change seasonally by quite a lot depending on where you're at. I recall at least one batch of beer at a brewery in New Jersey that was brewed during a drought and the extra sediment that was picked up as the water level in the reservoirs dropped it become surprisingly bitter and harsh.

 

What distinguishes the subsequent cans? Is it a batch variation thing?

Cheers!

 

Great, looks like I'llhave to brew my own Orval clone at some point now

 

Cool story, thanks for sharing!

Thinks it makes a difference at all in a style like a pastry stout?

 

A Pennsylvania Pilsner showdown! I don't think that I have ever compared these two side by side and thought that it would be interesting. I got them both in cans for this comparison:

Victory Prima Pils - BB 09/14/22.
Sly Fox Pikeland Pils - BB 08/03/22.

SF is just a hint darker than VP and the head does not linger as much as VP, but carbonation is about the same. On the nose VP is a bit more complex and softer and there is an underlying fruity and peppery thing going on, but you can pick up on the hops also. SF is sweet malts along with some grainy cracker underneath, not getting much from the hops.

For the taste, VP is a bit soft but a slight bite from the hops is there. There's also a familiar Victory taste that you can find in some of their beers and an almost Ale-like character to this beer; lacking that sharp crisp snap. SF is fuller and crisper and has a strong bite at the end, actually quite hoppy for a Pils but nothing too crazy. It's interesting because these beers are flipped from how they are on the nose, so I'll assume part of VP's recipe is more dry hopping.

My verdict? This is a tough one, as I think that these beers are different enough that depending on your mood and what you normally like I may have a different recommendation. If you want a true to form craft Pils, go with the SF. If you want a Pils but also a touch of something else and you really dig Ales, I would say go with the VP. Neither are a bad choice but I do miss the old Prima, as the recipe was reformulated a few years ago to make it more drinkable from a session-able aspect. I feel as if they have accomplished that and have kept the core of the beer, but it did lose some character in the process (Prima Pils was one hoppy beer in its day). Budmo!

 

Below is something I posted in yesterday's NBW thread:

Let’s get Czech’d Out!

The new beer this weekend is Workhorse Czech’d Out - Czech Style Pilsner.

This is a new brand from Workhorse and they took the ‘extra step’ of installing a Luke side-pull faucet to pour this beer at the brewery’s taproom. I enjoyed a couple of draft glasses at the taproom so I decided to purchase a four-pack for my home drinking pleasure. For today’s discussion I will ‘kick it up a notch’ and conduct a side-by-side tasting with my homebrewed batch of Bohemian Pilsner (I brew a batch every year).

Below are some details from Workhorse for their beer:

“Brewed with Bohemian Pilsner malt, this traditional Czech Pilsner has a crisp, clean complex malt character of white bread. The use of Saaz hops gives this golden-blond lager a pleasant herbal and floral aroma with a slight hop bitterness.”

For my homebrewed batch of Bohemian Pilsner:

· Mostly Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner Malt but also there is some Weyermann Vienna Malt for depth of color/flavor and augmenting the body of the beer

· Sterling Hops for the bittering addition

· Czech Saaz hops generously used for both flavor and aroma additions

· Bohemian Lager yeast (the Czech Budejovice Lager Yeast strain)

While the ingredient list is simple the brewing process for making a Pilsner (lager) is not so simple – lots of process steps needed.

Served in my Polish Pilsner glasses:

Appearance:

Workhorse Czech’d Out: Golden yellow with a BIG white head. The head retention was just OK.

Jack’s BoPils: Golden yellow with a BIG white head. The head retention was excellent forming a beautiful Belgian Lace as the beer is consumed.

Aroma:

Workhorse Czech’d Out: Mostly a sweetish Pilsner Malt aroma but some herbal/spicy hop aroma in the background.

Jack’s BoPils: A vibrant combination of bready Malt and spicy/herbal aromas.

Taste:

Workhorse Czech’d Out: The first thing that strikes you is a strong taste of bitterness. Once the bitterness dies down a bit there are some flavors of bready malt and herbal/spicy hop flavors.

Jack’s BoPils: The flavors follow the nose with notable flavors of bready and spicy/herbal. There is a moderate bitterness.

Mouthfeel:

Workhorse Czech’d Out: Medium body with a dry finish.

Jack’s BoPils: Medium body, a soft mouthfeel and a dry finish.

Overall:

Workhorse Czech’d Out: I enjoyed drinking this beer but it lacked balance with the bitterness very much dominating the sensory aspects with malt flavor and hop flavor playing second fiddle so to speak. But overall, a good – very good beer.

Jack’s BoPils: This beer is also very good - excellent. In contrast to the Workhorse beer this beer is very well balanced between the malt flavors and hop flavors.

My wife was watching me as was conducting this side-by-side taste test. She requested a taste of both beers (she was doing this blind). I told her since I had an ‘extra’ beer she could have one. She selected Jack’s BoPils.

Cheers!

P.S. Later today (this afternoon) I will be attending the Logjammin’ Lager Fest in Philly where I will be enjoying more Pilsners (and other Lagers) from a number of breweries. I am looking forward to drinking the Lagers from Bierstadt Lagerhaus, Schilling Beer Co., The Seed, Wild East Brewing Co., Trauger Brewing, and a long list of my local favorites.

 

I appreciate what Workhorse is doing but unfortunately I've yet to be wowed by their beers.