Which IPA is harder to brew well?

...Yes...ish. They're more bitter and clean than what modern NEIPAs have become they're not quite old school American IPAs either. They're the beginning of the new lineage. I was also going to suggest Bissel Bros' for another example of really great older school NEIPA.

Some more modern examples I was usually pretty pleased with are Grimm, Other Half, Thin Man, and Tired Hands. It's not my favorite style of beer but there are some good examples.

 

I think picking nut brown for a passable style was one of the worst examples that could be used (or the definition of "passable" is one that you and I might not agree upon). It is very easy to overdo roasted or highly kilned malts in a nut brown and get nasty astringency. Very few brewers actually understand that style and the delicate balance. Personally, I've struggled more with nut brown ales than I have with lite lagers or pilsners because while the lagers are extremely process driven, a nut brown ale needs a very well thought out recipe that likely takes many batches to properly develop in addition to good brewing practices.

 

Brown ales are some of my favorites, but I struggle to brew decent ones given the examples listed above. Chocolate malt can be your best friend or the devil with these.

 

I agree completely, and the same goes for porters. The best ones are made by having the right amounts of the right malts and unmalted grains in correct proportion to create the perfect balance. And both styles tend to be thin in mouthfeel or bland when made poorly.

 

Sometimes Debbie Downer's cousin Bobby Bummer just likes to be an energy sink. He can't help it. Ignore him, he's already miserable.

 

What about this question, is hop lot selection more important for one ipa style over the other? Does the fact that neipa generally feature the aromatic properties of hops more mean that subpar hop lots will have a larger impact on them?

 

YES and YES.

 

Pardon me here but I have a differing viewpoint.

Contemporary American style IPAs (e.g., Juicy/Hazy IPA, 'regular' IPA,...) feature hop aroma/flavor and all of these beers are best served if the brewery is utilizing hops for the late kettle additions and dry hopping which are not "subpar". Today's hop head consumers greatly desire IPAs that 'smack them in the face' with robust hop aroma/flavor regardless of IPA sub-style. One potential difference between the Hazy/Juicy IPA sub-style and the 'regular' IPA sub-style is perhaps the sensitivity to oxidation (i.e., sensitivity to hop aroma fade). It behooves for all hoppy beer style to have extremely low TPO (Total Packaged Oxygen) values during packaging but for the Juicy/Hazy IPA sub-style this is even more of an issue. Along with the need for continual cold storage of the beers (e.g., cans) after packaging.

Cheers!

 

I think yeast is maybe the biggest factor. At first A lot breweries where brewing neipas but didn’t really understand it. They took a west coast ipa added wheat and oats then tossed in mosaic and galaxy but it still didn’t hit that mark. I think a lot of that was because they were still using chico yeast or a clean yeast. Then breweries finally realized to really hit this style you need an expressive yeast. Those yeast characteristics really drive that fruity notes and body.

 

Well, there you go getting all technical on me, Jack!

I suppose it all comes down to what is the meaning of "sub par" in @unlikelyspiderperson 's post/question. I agree with what you wrote, and it seems that you've taken the "sub par" to mean lesser quality. I took "sub par" to be hop varieties that I like less, thus the varieties chosen by the brewer are critical for an IPA (or NEIPA) to be a good one in my mind.

 

I agree with you here in the specific context of the attributes of a "juicy" character and a smooth mouthfeel. Certain English Ale yeasts are needed here for these aspects. In my homebrewing both Wyeast 1318 and Fermentis S-04 have 'worked' for me but there are other strains that will 'work' here as well.

But as regards hop aroma, both Juicy/Hazy IPAs and 'regular' IPAs are best brewed using hops which are not "subpar". And high quality packaging as well previously discussed.

Cheers!

 

Yes, that is correct.

There are certain hop varieties that are 'preferred' for the production of Hazy/Juicy IPAs since they foster the aspects of "juicy". Commonly they would be hop varieties such as Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy, El Dorado (and several others). From my personal perspective hops such as Chinook, Simcoe, Cascade,... are not "subpar" to these hops but I suppose a reflection of my personal perspective here.

Cheers!

Edit: My apologies for getting "technical" in this discussion but the question is a "technical" question.

 

Firstly, I think that we can all agree that the ideal situation is that breweries use the best quality hops they can. That will produce the best quality beer.

I guess my question is, are the imperfections/shortcomings of any given hop lot going to be more pronounced in one ipa substyle vs the other? My original thought was that maybe neipa capture more of the subtle aromatics, so variation in hop sensory quality will show up more readily?

But after considering what @GetMeAnIPA said about the impact of yeast derived flavors, and thinking about the often more complex malt bill in neipa, I'm wondering if the relatively uncluttered nature of a west coast ipa might make it harder to deal with hop variability.

It seems to me that there are two distinct brewing skill sets when it comes to hops. There is the ability to manage hop lots in such a way that a consistent expression is achieved across a large volume of beer and the attendant variability of input hop quality. And then there is the ability to highlight the specific nuances of a given lot of a single hop. So perhaps my question is more a matter of whether hop variability is harder to deal with when brewing neipa vs wc ipa or vice-versa?

 

I will repeat what I stated above: in contemporary IPAs, regardless of sub-style, there is a customer demand for hop aromas/flavors which provide a 'wow' factor. So in this instance "hop variability" is a concern for all of today's IPAs.

To put a finer point on this discussion, today's brewers beyond the aspect of "hop variability" fell compelled to just add outrageous amounts of hops to further the 'wow' factor and for the specific instances of the Juicy/Hazy IPAs this can manifest itself with what is often described as "hop burn". It never ceases to amaze me how some craft beer consumers (the Haze Bros?) will overlook this aspect in their desire for moar hop aroma/flavor but for me "hop burn" equates to an almost painful response for my palate.

Given that in today's craft beer market there seems to be more popularity for the Juicy/Hazy IPA sub-style this manifestation of "hop burn" is more prevalent here but if there were more 'regular' IPA brands with breweries trying to do moar here it is entirely possible that "hop burn" would be an issue with this sub-style as well.

Not that commercial brewers will heed my advice but...choose the hops your purchase wisely (e.g., select hop lots from the farmers at harvest time) and use them wisely/judiciously.

Cheers!

 

I can pick out specific hop varieties for a WC but I find it harder for neipa. A podcast I listen to refers to neipa hop flavor and aromas as hop smear. For neipa you get more of a bouquet of hop flavors in aroma but I often find it hard to say yeah that’s mosaic. While, I find it easier for a west coast. Just a personal antidotal example.

 

Every Juicy/Hazy IPA that I have consumed has used a number of hop varieties (e.g., Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy) in the same beer brand. Given that this is a combination I wouldn't be able to pick out specific varieties.

For a 'regular' IPA which is brewed using a combination (e.g., both Citra and Mosaic for example), you can pick out the attributes of a single hop variety that was used to produce that beer?

Cheers!

 

It is interesting that you say this, as last night I had a NEIPA and I described the aroma [and taste] as a fruit bowl. I have had many hazies but the more popular/commercial ones with higher IBUs and I can count on one hand the low IBU NEIPAs I have had so it's not a style I have had often.

I am with @GetMeAnIPA on this one, as I had a Troegs Nimble Giant recently and it wasn't hard for me to "separate" the hops with my palate. But with the NEIPA this wasn't really possible for me (maybe over time if I drank more I would be able to do this, though).

It is why I am so sensitive with the IPA style and one bad combination for my palate and the whole beer is ruined and undrinkable, I don't really have that same issue with other styles.

 

Pray tell.

Which of the hop varieties did you "separate" and what specifically did variety A taste like, variety B taste like, and variety C taste like? Did you pick up A more so on the nose and B/C more so on the flavor?

Cheers!

 

Yes, not all the time and not all of them. But if there is a variety of hops I can usually pick out one or two. Especially hops I am more familiar with. With WC ipas to me more clear specific hop flavors come through while with. NE IPA I tend to get a general juicy, tropical flavor.