German craft beer

Discussion in 'Germany' started by einhorn, Dec 20, 2012.

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  1. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,141) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Lots of activity here in the German forum, which I love to see and read. As many of you "regulars" know, well at least for me, it is great to hear about your experiences and ideas about what German beer is, was, and maybe what it is evolving into. Hoping that some of the German brewers will have their own ideas about what the German craft beer scene will consist of in character and beer styles, I thought it better to start a new thread than continue under American Influence thread that Steve started.

    I posted a few days ago this news brief from a beverage website

    Paulaner macht Whiskeyfass auf

    In München geht jetzt auch Paulaner unter die Craft-Brauer: In der "Brauerei am Eiswerk", einem denkmalgeschützten Gebäude auf dem (bisherigen) Areal der Brauerei in zentraler Stadtlage, lässt Paulaner seit einiger Zeit zu Forschungs- und Ausbildungszwecken spezielle Biere herstellen. Die kommen jetzt auf den Markt - neben dem Märzen-Bier Eiswerk 1881 auch ein gerauchtes Joseph´s Bier und der in Whiskey-Fässern ausgelagerte Bourbon-Bock, letzterer für 24,90 Euro pro Champagnerflasche. Die beiden anderen Sorten kosten dem Vernehmen nach rund 3,50 Euro/0,33 Liter.

    Paulaner reiht sich mit seinem "Eiswerk" damit ein in die Riege der bayerischen Edel- und Craftbiere, angefangen mit dem Weihenstephaner Infinium, Schneiders TAP X, Maisel´s & Friends aus Bayreuth, Crew Ale aus München, die ihre Biere bislang in Hohenthann herstellen lassen, und viele andere; in München selbst sorgte erst vor kurzem die kleine Giesinger Brauerei für Schlagzeilen, als die Verantwortlichen ankündigten, innerhalb der Stadt umziehen und sich vergrößern zu wollen.

    Now this turned up today - take it for what it's worth, but there seems to be quite an interest in what they are doing...

    [​IMG]

    So, maybe if you have future info about things like this (for example, the chap at Pax), maybe we can collect the info here, if you see it being pertinent to the thread/discussion.

    Prost!
     
  2. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,765) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    First of all, it is a great idea to keep a thread where we can come back continually to post out finds we make in Craft beer.

    At Biershop Bayernbiere, http://www.biershop-bayern.de/index.php/?biersorte=241 you can see 8 different IPAs sold only in Bayern. I've had the Auswanderer Bier, which is a super Citras-like hopped up IPA. I had it in the brewery at at a local Gastwirtschft in Miltenberg, and it's at least 8%. It reminded me of a 3 Floyd's Alpha King clone I had made. I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the offeringss from Bavaria, Camra, Maxbrauerei, & Riegele. They also have a page listing 6 different stouts from the 4 listed in the previous sentence.

    There are starting to be the first shoots of a craft beer movement.
     
  3. WhatANicePub

    WhatANicePub Zealot (598) Jul 1, 2009 Scotland

    I like the way the innovation on the German beer market is coming from huge breweries like Schneider, Paulaner and Radeberger (Braufactum). Just to fuck with the heads of "craft" fanatics.
     
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  4. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,141) Nov 3, 2005 California

    When you look at the production numbers compared to the US Craft Brewer's Association guideline for being a "craft brewery", not one German brewery produces over 6 mio. barrels (7.5 million HL), so as long as they are independently owned, it fits. As odd as that may seem.
     
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  5. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany
    In Memoriam

    Paulaner and Radeberger are not independently owned though. Schneider is.
     
  6. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Not sure what you mean, ask any "craft fanatic" and they'll tell you they don't even look twice at German beer. :wink:
     
  7. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,765) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Now it's my turn to ask "what the...?" What do you mean, that craft beer fanatics don't look at German beers? I thought that during many of the threads we've come to establish the fact that very very few American craft beer producers can match the quality when it comes to making German styles, especially the Bavarian styles. Or, do you mean don't look at what's being imported to the USA from Germany because the only one's imported are Fernsehbiers?
     
  8. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,141) Nov 3, 2005 California

    I believe that many craft drinkers enjoy German (style) beers. They are readily available in the US and they are in the frequent rotation of craft fans. One of the most interesting facets of the craft movement is the lack of brand loyalty - they will try just about anything once, which I think is great.
     
  9. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,765) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    I agree that brand loyalty here is a plus, giving up-and-comers or innovators a great chance to break into the market. That, in inverse, is the exact problem in Germany, brand loyaly, where many drink the same beer they've drunk since teenagers even when confronted with something far superior in taste, or they drink the same beer just because their grandfathers drank it 80 years ago. And, that's one main reason for the Brauereiaussterben (brewery death). All those old men are dieing off, not being replaced by younger teens who are shunning, don't want to drink Opa's beer and instead are going to Red Bull-based or juice-based hard liquor concoctions.
     
  10. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,141) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Wasn't much different 15-20 years ago in the US with Bud/Miller/Coors. And to be quite honest, the total craft market share of about 6% is still small by anyone's standards.

    There are lots of parallels of the US 15 years ago and where the Germans are now. The German brewing industry is well aware of what is happening here. I believe that time is ripe and you will soon see lots of new things. All it will take is to have ONE large brewer have any iota of success in the German domestic market and it's off to the races.
     
  11. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,339) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Agreed, and my money is on Schneider Weisse.
     
  12. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society

    First off -- it was a joke (a dig, if you will -- see the emoticon?) -- just read outside the Germany forum, a large majority of BA members think German beer is on the same level as BMC. Sure, there are a few here and there who will mention liking a good Weizen or Doppelbock, but just bring up the "L" word in any conversation about your favorite style and you're bound to get the, "I never drink lagers because they're boring." comment 7 out of 10 times.

    That said, I know the regulars here at the Germany forum are far more enlightened than that... and thought they'd see the irony in my comment... :astonished:
     
  13. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,765) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    I think I said the same thing a year ago! Not as well as you just did, however.
     
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  14. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Based (only) on BA threads that often bring up "What's your favorite style?" German beers get little respect from the common craft beer drinker.

    However, I think that really points more at the "common craft beer drinker" lacking knowledge in the wide range of different styles available. To the vast majority, if it doesn't slap your face when you drink it, it's not worth drinking -- mention "subtlety" in flavors and you damn near get laughed off the 'net.

    A sad testament to how perception of good beer has turned, but true nevertheless.
     
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  15. WhatANicePub

    WhatANicePub Zealot (598) Jul 1, 2009 Scotland

    Oettinger is independently owned too :wink:
     
  16. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Initiate (0) Jan 24, 2011 England

    That's why apart from UK beer, German styles are my favourite. If they get it right you get a perfect blend of drinkability and flavour. A proper "drink" drink, as opposed to tiny servings of palate shattering beer closer to liqeurs than proper drinks, which are still nice, I just don't find them good to drink with meals, or if i'm actually thirsty.
     
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  17. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,141) Nov 3, 2005 California

    You can be cheeky WANP, that's for sure!

    I just checked the numbers for Oettinger. As the largest (privately owned) German brewery, they produced 6.2 mio. HL (5.3 mio BBL) in 2011, so if they did bring out a barrel aged pilsner or a Gruit beer, it could theoretically be categorized (by US standards) as a craft beer. Let's hope they have no ambitions.
     
  18. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany
    In Memoriam

    Informally we call it "Oettinger Schädelsprenger". Which translates to "Skull buster" (but the German word is much more colourful...) and you can imagine what that refers to...
     
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  19. lotsaswigs

    lotsaswigs Initiate (0) Jan 24, 2006 Michigan

    Glad I finally wandered over to this forum, as I'm currently in Germany visiting my wife's family who always makes an effort to take me around to various places to sample different beers from various breweries. A few days ago we visited Brauhaus Goslar, where I was able to have a personal tour of the brewery from the owner and had a good conversation with him about what he's doing/experimenting with now and possibly in the future.

    This is a very small brewery in the town where the original Gose was brewed. The Gose there was delicious by the way, I much preferred it to what I sampled the day before at the Gasthaus & Gosebrauerei Bayerischer Banhof in Leipzig. (although I want to say the weizen and other beers I had there, especially the special brown Christmas beer (ale?), were absolutely delicious).

    His (a very nice guy named Odin) brewery has only been opened for 3 years and he seems to have an interest in American beers and also our unique/fruity hop varieties. He is planning on brewing with some Cascades in the near future and is currently experimenting adding American oak chips to some small kegs of bock with good results. He's aware of hop varieties like Citra and Amarillo and I wouldn't be surprised to see him experimenting with these in the future if he's able to get his hands on any. He hasn't visited the U.S. so I'm kicking myself for not bringing some of our IPA's over for him to sample, next time though for sure...

    Hope all this is appropriate to the thread, just thought I'd mention a brewery I've come across that's very small and is also starting to experiment and branch out a little bit. Personally I've wondered about the feasibility of opening an American style brewpub here somewhere, as I do believe the flavor of our beers could definitely catch on if approached in the correct manner, however that may be...
     
  20. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,765) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Any pics taken? Post them please, like I did for the Faust Brauerei tour. If not, give your impressions of the beer and whatever.

    Also, you hopefully can appreciate that the USA is currently the epicenter/Shangra La of beer.
     
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