Hill Farmstead (2023)

Think what you may, but I always saw Shaun's name as a tool to amplify the weight of ratmagnet's stories. What I can recall is that it wasn't just hearsay, but hearsay of hearsay, showing no direct interaction with any alleged victim whatsoever. I don't think hype beer is all that kept him from being dragged down, but more so that most people saw its lack of significance for what it was pretty early on, especially in light of the far more egregious allegations other brewers and owners were answering to. The few people I saw try to push Hill's name deeper into the mud seemed to have a personal axe to grind that had nothing to do with any of the ratmagnet stories, as they just wanted to tear down something for the sake of it.

 

I actually noticed the same. Quite interesting to think about it all this time later.

The accusations against Shaun always seemed suspect to me. As they started to morph and the coconut wireless took control and distorted things. Like half of them.

Beer is still damn good.

 

Given his relationship with Jean at Tired Hands plus the stories there's plenty of smoke to indicate he's been, let's say, less than pleasant around women in the industry. I mean he could've separated himself more effectively especially after the lawsuit involving TH finished and maybe made some meaningful comments, since it seems like Jean's behavior was an open secret. So sure, there are lots of worse stories out there and there's not a ton on Shaun relative to a few other people.

 

Yes, and anything is possible. But as is custom here(US) I tend to fall on the innocent until proven guilty side. I never saw anything to show me different. I sincerely hope that what was said isn’t true. Will have to see down the line. But I don’t get all my facts from online posts that become viral. That’s a very slippery slope

 

Well that could be said about harassment concerns in general, and I don't think it's crazy to say the company you keep can say something about you (especially considering how he is powerful enough to choose who to associate with, and know his business will be just fine, and still hung out with Jean and even nominally was in business with him). But people can do what they want. No doubt his talent and quality of beer is going to have an impact on the level of evidence people would need to consider not buying though. I mean, did Jean's issues hurt TH or just downtrend in quality, competition, and reduced milkshake IPA demand?

 

You act like Hill Farmstead and Tired Hands are a half hour apart from each other and Shaun and Jean go out for beers every night. From what little I've seen, their relationship couldn't be any further from "the company you keep." It's not like he went out there and bled for him in defense after the accusations, let alone have you seen some sort of influx of collaboration since.

Powerful? Give me a break, he's still just the founder of a small business in very rural Vermont. Sure his beer is renowned, but Vermonters keep to themselves and their own local politics. They can be fiercely independent and strong in their own debates, but this situation was none of Shaun's business. Did you want him to go to southeast Pennsylvania and start a picket line at Tired Hands or something? Give it a rest already. Jean is not Shaun and vice versa. Go start yet another thread about the drama at Tired Hands.

 

Slightly off subject but I always wondered why Gerhart left Hill Farmstead? I know he was doing come consulting and also works with UVM. HF seemed like a fit that made sense for him.

 

I think powerful in the context of this would be that whatever commentary he makes (or doesn't) he's not going to be struggling for business. I also don't think it had to be political especially if you're a huge name in an industry with big time problems on the HR side. I also don't think it's fair to say "all VTers" anything. It's fine. I haven't heard any criminal level complaints nor civil suits. But he was literally invested in TH, and they did some collabs (whatever that means practically). So yeah, he could've said more than the boilerplate, and yes that would be good for underrepresented groups to have him be more vocal even if his name never came up. But if you're that bothered by that observation that most famous craft American brewer outside Boston Beer Co. should maybe not associate with someone like Jean including at industry conferences I'm not sure what I can say to that.

 

So if someone at Buffalo Trace harassed one of their employees then Jim Beam is supposed to go out and make a statement about that?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hill actually make a statement about the ratmagnet stories? How much do you require of Hill? You strike me as one of those who has an infinite axe to grind regardless of any legitimate gripe. Plus, the absolutely ridiculous claim @Mgh2001 previously made about female workers strikes me as more pompously sexist than anything Hill has ever done. I've been going since the mid-2010s and most of those women working there have been there since I can remember.

That said, again, what happens at Tired Hands should be handled at Tired Hands and the community within which they operate. Hill having brewed a beer in collaboration with them--what, a decade ago(?)--isn't an endorsement of toxic work culture. And besides, weren't the other human beings who work there still advocating for Tired Hands patrons to continue spending their money on their product?!

 

IIRC one of the anecdotes was from Brienne herself. Someone please correct me if I’m talking balls though. In either case - whether this is a valid nuance or not - my take is that he may be a creepy-when-drunk type, with some less than ideal acquaintances/partnerships. Vs someone who runs a business that is a generally toxic environment for women. I’m not making a statement around whether this lets him off the hook or not. But it does seem to be a distinction compared to some of the other anecdotes. So I’m assuming that + beer quality = la la la la la

 

You're from Ohio. You can't tell us about the hearts and minds of Vermonters. Leave it for locals like @Mgh2001.

 

For anyone that played Killer Instinct. “U-u-u-ultra combo!”

 

One anecdote was from her, yes, from what someone else told her they heard Shaun say. Hearsay of hearsay, as I mentioned earlier.

And what can anyone do in defense of that but say, "I didn't say that!"?

Most people hate hearing that from anyone, true or not.

 

Rozzom’s recollection is correct. I think trying to handwave the anecdotes away as hearsay or suspect isn’t great. No reason to believe they’re not true.

I’ve stopped listening to most bands I liked that have done shitty stuff to women (that I know about). I still go to HF and I have wondered if that’s hypocritical. On some level, when I think about it being a place I’ve had a ton of great memories and not wanting to lose that, I feel a bit like I am. But at the same time, Shaun has clearly tried to do a lot of good with HF - from the charity work local and otherwise, to treating his employees well at least from what can be seen publicly, to the desire to move as much ingredients to local and or organize where possible to both support the VT economy and minimize the effect of the brewery on the planet. He behaved poorly from what we know, and his apology didn’t take much accountability. If worse came out or happened again I wouldn’t hesitate to quit going there. As it stands, I’m willing to believe that he’s not a horrible person, just human and hopefully one who has grown from this and has done better going forward. Ymmv, and I wouldn’t blame anyone if they draw a harder line in the sand.

 

Yes, the middle one here. But to me, the third one was the most serious.

what he actually said to this newspaper was: "I did not say these words." Which sounds to me like a lawyerly way of disputing the exact quote, but not necessarily the spirit of the anecdote.

https://vtdigger.org/2021/05/21/acc...ft-beer-industry-shake-up-vermonts-breweries/

 

As long as there’s still bullshit being posted here like the first post on this page, it’s not clear that we shouldn’t, really. Few or no one here is trying to say Hill Farmstead should cease to operate. It’s good to engage with the deeper questions from time to time.

 

It doesn't seem lawyerly to me. It seems more like an attempt to not reduce oneself into a pointless he said, she said when whatever was said ultimately didn't directly reach the person it was supposed to have been directed towards. Notice that the man who actually made these accusations to ratmagnet never came forward.

Also, that third screen is hearsay, too, and not only that, but from someone observing a group of people, none of whom have corroborated the story.

I mean, really, what other third party anecdotes should we allow ourselves to be consumed by? And don't you find it the slightest bit weird that you still have those screenshots?

There's nothing deeper being discussed here. All this was actually discussed previously here on BA, and nothing new has ever emerged since.

And what bullshit?

 

It provides a tenuously plausible pretext for self-righteously refusing to mule a bottle of Ann for @franktank18 - even if I could manage to keep it in my cart all the way to checkout.

 

I'm not sure what that is supposed to prove. They might still work for HF, they might have thought there was nothing wrong with what he said, they felt it was already out in the public, etc. You can also say the opposite - why didn't they come out and make a public statement to exonerate him?

With all of these, it's a theme coming from different people that don't seem to have any reason to make up overly specific anecdotes. And with both Shaun Hill and Jean Broillet, it's not like their public pompous statements clashed with the idea that they might actually be jerks.

I don't, the internet does. The image source is from this article, that's the way the BA image function works.

Shaun Hill's initial statement in that article implied some kind of future action or change. I think it's fair to ask what actually changed since then, other than lying low for a while then going right back to business-as-usual? And if nothing changed, not wanting to buy their beer.