Oldies But Goodies - a Classics Appreciation Thread (2023)

My favorite Saranac branded beer was their Black Lager. There is supposedly a 'connection' to this beer and a prior beer: Prior Double Dark:

“The Matt brewery's history with Black Forest -- and the reason some in Syracuse call it Prior's -- is almost as murky as the beer itself.

The beer known as Prior's dates back to 1939, when a light and dark version were brewed by a brewery called Scheidt's in Norristown, Pa., according to an online discussion led by Philadelphia-based beer blogger Jack Curtin back in 2010. (Read the discussion -- and another on the Black Forest/Prior's topic at beeradvocate.com -- and you'll see how beer geeks earned their name).

The Prior's brands were later acquired by Schmidt's, a Philadelphia brewer. By the mid-1980s, F.X. Matt in Utica was brewing Prior's -- the dark version at least -- under contract for Schmidt's. It was then a draft-only beer. The same beer was being sold to the famous McSorley's Old Ale House in New York City as its dark ale.”

https://www.syracuse.com/drinks/2015/08/saranac_stops_brewing_one_its.html

Cheers!

 

I agree. To the best of my knowledge I cannot remember NC changing any of these recipes, at least in a major way. Although I'm not a fan myself, I would also include Old Stock Ale.

 

Can't believe I forgot Old Stock. I'd say that one definitely qualifies

 

The first beer I drank when I moved to Michigan was Bell’s Oberon. It’s been a staple for the past 24 summers (soon to be 25 and h*ll yes I’m going to celebrate the sh*t out of that!). Now, I loves me some Two Hearted, but our ties don’t run nearly as deep.

 

I picked up a Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout tonight. Hadn't had one in years. It was damn good -- massive richness of flavor for a 5% beer.

Sadly, I didn't think to take a picture. But this is truly one classic to appreciate.

 

Yeah, released a few years early for F X Matt's 100th anniversary (the brewery has long been known as the West End Brewing Co., changing it's name only a couple of years previous) and called Saranac 1888 All Malt Lager.

Note the claim above of "4.5% alcohol by volume" vs today's label of 5.5% abv. Could have been an error - back then, pre-legal ABV labeling in the US, many sources confused or didn't even specific "by weight" or "by volume". Still the current version brings no memory to me of the that '85 beer and M. Jackson's Pocket Guide reviews of that period seem to back me up. At least I don't find this to beer to have a "good hop character throughout not only in the aroma , but especially in the palate and finish, against a nice balance of malty background". MJ [1988] also lists yet another alcohol content: "3.8w / 4.8v"

I always thought those labels were too similar to Sierra Nevada's...

Pretty sure it took a number of years for Matt to add to the Saranac line-up. (Black Forest, noted below, was first bottled a decade later, in the mid-90s). Of course, after Repeal, when the brewer's flagship brand was Utica Club, they had a pretty impressive portfolio.

Yeah, but as some of those now-defunct links (which is why the internet sucks compared to "hard copies" which don't just disappear) probably noted, the C. Schmidt's & Sons final version of Prior Double Dark was adjunct-brewed while Saranac Black Forest was all-malt. As noted in one of those links "Fred Matt described SBF as a "similar" beer "with even more character" in one interview (I think an issue of Modern Brewery Age)" but there were examples of NY bars using their old Prior tap handles for Black Forest kegs. Prior Double Dark was pretty commonly found in upstate NY for whatever reason, in the early 80s I saw it up there more often than in NJ or PA. I recall it was available in a couple of bars in Ithaca.

Never heard the story of Matt attempting a bottled version but it's entirely possible that the Prior trademark was owned by a third party. The original brew from Scheidt, released during WWII, was developed at the request of and distributed by Atlantis Imports, when supplies of Pilsner Urquell were cut off. Many Prior ads, even after the War, often listed Atlantis but not Scheidts.

 

Oh, yeah - especially if one considers they are still (partially*) family-owned and located at the original brewery site. There are a lot of dubious claims when it comes to these internet lists of "Oldest US Breweries" in which the "researchers" seem to rely on the beer labels as their primary source material.

* The owners of Brooklyn Brewery, the Ottaway family, bought a minority share of Matt a few years ago.

On such lists one sees "breweries" like Pabst (sold numerous times since the 1980s and no longer brewing in Milwaukee), Miller (now merely a 'dba' of Molson Coors), Leinenekugel (a subsidiary of Miller and then MC since the 1980s), Minhas (different names and owners over the decades), as well as companies like Genesee, Frankenmuth, Steven Point, Spoetzl which have all been sold numerous times.

Yuengling, August Schell and Straub along with Matt are pretty much the only independent family-owned breweries that can trace their actual founding back to the 19th century. (Am I missing one?) I guess since there are still Coors family members at Molson Coors, you can put them on the list with an asterisk?

 

I was wondering what you’d consider to be the oldest continuously operating brewery in the US, regardless of ownership. Molson has long made a point of calling themselves the oldest continuously operating brewery in North America (1786) and still brews ‘on the original site’. Moosehead lays claim to the oldest independent family owned brewery in the country (1867).

Are there any US breweries that trace back into the 18th century?

 

They should have keep the oldie but goodie label though.

 

As far as I know, D.G. Yeungling & Son is the oldest in the US, going back to 1829. None that I am aware of that are pre-1800. Prohibition pretty much killed all the breweries that would have been older. Yeungling only survived by making ice cream and near beer during prohibition.

 

Yeah, there was even some legal wrangling over that between Molson and Yuengling as the latter was growing and expanding its distribution area in the 1990s.

Take that, Canada! Serves you right for being on a continent named after us (or some Italian mapmaker).

 

*Yuengling - It's Friday. Brain has checked out for the weekend.

 

Yeah, and Yuengling only became the oldest in the USA in the mid-50s, with the demise of the Boston Beer Co.

Pre-Prohibition several breweries claimed the title. Robert Smith Ale Brewing Co., 1774, of Phila. but was purchased by C. Schmidt's & Sons in the 1890s. C H Evans in Hudson, NY, used the date 1786, had been founded and owned by several brewers, with Evans buying the brewery with a partner in the 1850s. There were a few attempts to revive the brand after Repeal and the brewery itself was destroyed by fire during the final years of Prohibition, 1932, although reports said it was "abandoned".

Many US brewers that began earlier than Yuengling's 1829 date would have, of course, been ale brewers since lager yeast didn't get to the US until the 1840s and many ale brewers that didn't start brewing lager beers were defunct and/or had been sold by Prohibition.

Like Minhas , even in the 1800s, some US brewers would claim earlier dates based on when the first brewery was built on the site by other owners, rather than when their brewing company was formed. At some point (1980s? 1990s?) Stroh's even started putting "Since 1775" on their labels, basing that on the family's start in the industry while in Germany.

 

That's good stuff @jesskidden! I have often wondered which breweries had been around the longest pre-prohibition. Prohibition deprived us of a longer, richer brewing tradition in this country and that's a darn shame.

 

Up here Sleeman made a big deal about their connections to the Sleeman brewery that was in operation from the 1850s to 1933. Same family, and apparently, same recipes (for a couple of their beers). It isn’t as much a part of their marketing now that Sapporo owns them.

 

Yeah, it's funny that there's no definitive answer for pre-Pro, just lots of "Yeah, but..." sorts of claims. Even after Repeal, there were brewers that weren't Boston Beer Co. that made the claim of being the oldest in the US. Like:


Horton's date of 1770 (?!) for a Yuengling brewhouse in NYC refers to the brewery operated by the family in the 1870-1890s, later in the pre-Pro period by Philadelphia brewer Betz & Sons, and by Bernheimer & Schwartz. But no source lists it was being a brewery on that site, 128th St. & Amsterdam Ave., in the 18th century.

 

Does Heady qualify as an Oldie but a Goodie?

I always seem to pick up a 4 pack when in the area and really enjoy it as a change of pace from the NE IPAs.

I pulled one out during a golf outing last year and the guy we were playing against said “that was a good beer 10 years ago” my response was well it still is….