Beers Best Enjoyed at the Source

Tree House could work if you’re talking about having their beer on draft. Since they don’t distribute.

Just my opinion their draft beer, while very good, isn’t different enough from the cans (or any other beers of the styles they brew) to warrant someone going there specifically for that.

The Pilsner Urquell I mentioned can only be consumed on the brewery tour, or one pub in Plzen.

Is it on tap too?

 

Jade at Foothills I think falls neatly into that category....

 

Well, if you know one of the monks you just may be able to pull this off. Please send photos of this event.

Cheers!

 

Yes, the Na Parkánu Pub. Not exactly the ‘source’ but since it is only a short walk from the brewery I would say close enough.



Na Zdravi

 

If a beer is super fresh, I don't think the beer itself is any better at the source. The real difference comes when there's a story or cultural significance that can enhance the experience. Those things don't affect the beer itself, but they can put you in a better state of mind that enhances everything around you.

The first places that came to mind were beers served in German biergartens, although freshness and care are a huge part of those places, too. On the other side of the coin, there are places like Cantillon, Drie Fonteinen, St. Sixtus, Orval, etc. where they're serving beers in bottles just like you can buy off your local shelves. Yet being in those places enhances the experience well beyond having a bottle of St. Lamvinus or Orval in front of your TV.

 

I think it's about 50/50 right now -- maybe leaning more away from the OP.

You know, I've had fresh Bush at Bush Stadium and fresh Miller at Miller Stadium in the past. Not quite the same as Schlenkerla from the small cask at the Bamberg stube. Just sayin'.

 

@jesskidden posted a “drinking at the source” story in past threads about his tour of the Columbus AB brewery:

“ ...they obviously did not return it to the original hopping rate- the "new" Mich was not even as hoppy as I remember it when I tried a very fresh sample at the Columbus brewery in the late 70s. That was far and away the hoppiest US adjunct lager I'd had up to that point. I was shocked as I brought the sample glass up to my nose.

"What the....thems HOPS!"”

Cheers!

@DCH

 

Draft Budweiser post brewery tour still sounds better than packaged Guinness (not draught) offered at the new Chicago Guinness location.

I asked if they planned on having Guinness on draft in the future, and she did not know. I left empty handed and went to Revolution instead, thankfully the Blue Line is close to both.

@JackHorzempa

 

Not when you have an allergy to fermented rice.

I thought it was advertised as a brewery -- as the spot out east once was?

Guinness Open Gate *Brewery.*

Must be behind production schedules.

 

Yes, but only at the brewery. I went there on the weekend of last year's release. It was the Sunday after, and the place was packed. The two 2022 releases, KBBS and KBBS Double Barrel Reserve, were available on tap, $20/4oz. I had both. I rationalized it by figuring the cost per ounce ($5) was significantly less than that for the bottle releases ($8.33). I will say that it was worth the trip and the expense for the experience of enjoying these two world-class stouts at the source. (Edit: And for less than half the price of a single bottle.)

We occasionally see Mornin' Delight and Assassin on tap here in the Cedar Valley, but if I'm not mistaken, KBBS is only available at TG.

 

ya know... when this thread appeared, I toyed with repeating this story but then thought - "Nah...". Just too lazy to do a search for it although I'd even decided that searching for my posts that included "Columbus" might do it. So, thanks!

#2 for me might be having Ortlieb's version of McSorley's Cream Ale at the Ortlieb's Tavern, which was (once) a real nice hoppy US golden ale - when it was available and fresh, I'd admit it beat my then-regular, Ballantine XXX Ale. At the time (late 1970s), an actual full bar and restaurant at a brewery was unusual if not illegal in most states - the Ortlieb family got around that by having the license in the name of a different family member IIRC. Still around, though the family sold it after the brewery closed as I understand it. Ortlieb Jazz Haus <pretty poor website

 

Yesterday I finished reading the book The Great American Beer Book (Copyright 1978, Published 1980) and this is what they stated about the Ortlieb brewed McSorley's Cream Ale (bottled I presume):

"MCSORLEY CREAM ALE - deep tawny brown color, big hoppy malt aroma, full flavored, good balance, plenty of hops yet not overly bitter, a fine ale at a reasonable price."

And on page 347, McSorley's Cream Ale was selected as a 'top' domestic beer (Honor Roll) along with 30 other beers.

The top Domestic Ale was Black Horse Ale brewed by Black Horse Brewery located in Trenton, NJ. Did you ever drink Black Horse Ale?

Cheers!

 

Oh, yeah. "Black Horse Brewery" was a 'dba' of the brewing company then known as Champale, Inc. "a wholly-owned subsidiary of Iroquois Brands". Black Horse Ale was OK, but it was hard to find fresh even tho' I lived 25 miles away - and,when found, it was in green bottles (cans existed but they were even less common).

Black Horse Ale (formerly a Canadian brand) was also brewed by Diamond Spring Brewing in MA and by Fred Koch in NYS (after Genesee bought Koch, they brewed it for a short-time, too. They did not follow my suggestion of combining their two hoppy ales into one beer to be called Twelve Black Horses Ale). I probably drank more of the Koch version simply because it was easier to find when I lived in the Finger Lakes (Koch at the time was owned by the British brewer, Vaux).

Champale, Inc. was a pretty quirky brewery for the time. What other US brewer had 3 primary products, none a standard AAL - instead they had a malt liquor, an ale (a bastard ale fermented with lager yeast, IIRC) and a near beer - Metbrew. (Name from a previous owner - the Metropolis Brewing Co.). They did brew a few AAL's including the storied Copenhagen Castle but I never saw most of them on the shelves in NJ.

Don't recall the list and my edition, 1978, only has 232 pages! (I think I've got some other ed's, too) I talked to Robertson on the phone at least once but we never got together (he lived in NJ, too, IIRC). I disagree with his choice of Top Domestic Ale, tho'.
(Pretty sure Augie Carton of Carton Brewing Co. knew him (or maybe his parents knew him?).

 

We have noticed quite a difference in beers at various sites versus the packaged beer, even when purchased at the source. A barley wine from Barreled Souls was glorious on tap, and contrary to what one may think it was average at best in the bottle. Several Allagash brews have been the same - some to the point of wondering whether the tap or the bottle was mislabeled. Smuttynose had a pilsner that was everything you'd want in the style from the tap, but was horrible in the bottle. Point being, I don't think it's a phenomenon related to a particular style - lots of variables involved in getting beer to the market, any of which could have a significant impact on the product.

Capital Brewing - Autumnal Fire straight from the brite tank where the wort is made is a wonderful brew. In the bottle (after being tankered up to Point for bottling) it's average at best. The Madison brewery did not have a packaging line when I visited for a behind the scenes tour.

I think, based on how long I keep beer in the house, that wild ales and Farmhouse styles suffer the least. Some of the big stouts, too, but certainly not all of them.

 

Well, English cask ale feels like the supreme example of this... but what makes it even more magnificent is that it's not about going to "the source" (as in the brewer), but the source as in the general location. England is really a beer miracle in this regard. It's one thing to have to travel to some brewery that caters to beer geeks to have a particular beer, but it's another thing entirely to have a city center that serves such beer on every block... especially when you can't get such things exported. It's a miracle that it exists at all... and it's often taken for granted.

Now you're traveling into non-commercial (or barely commercial) brewing.

I'll take a Pilsner Urquell that's travelled over an ocean from a side pour faucet at a great US Czech restaurant with great beer turnover over a North American Czech-style beer from a Lukr any day. (And I'm not even a fan of Urquell) The import might not be in the best shape, but it's probably still a better fit and experience than the local pretenders.

With much respect to you, this really doesn't seem to make much sense. Objectively? That take feels totally subjective. It seems to reveal more about your musical tastes than anything musical.

Draught (keg) beer is a format that is very limiting with regards to temperature and carbonation. When it come to sexiness, beer people tend to automatically put bottles on the bottom of their list (compared to kegs, casks, cans) - and this is really a shame. Enthusiasts can't seem to wrap their head around the idea that some styles were built for bottles - particularly when it comes to the flavors and carbonation from fermentation in the bottle. Hefeweizen is a bottled style by design. This hasn't stopped breweries from figuring out how to keg Hefeweizen... and it hasn't stopped beer geeks from proclaiming that there's nothing more glorious than Hefeweizen from a tapped keg. We just can't seem to shake the false idea that it's somehow better or more authentic from keg... as if the bottle represents industry rather than craft. When it comes to our modern idea of (and love for) Belgian beer, we are talking about styles designed for the bottle... or are at their best from a bottle. You aren't going to find Westvleteren on draught because it's designed for bottles. We should embrace this rather than embracing a Belgian brewer's attempt to force their beer into a keg for the sake of consumer prejudice. You can find some Trappist beer on draught (like Westmalle Dubbel or Chimay Triple), but I wouldn't assume that every Belgian beer in a keg is a superior option over a bottle. I would actually assume that the brewer compromised something with their product to get it served from a keg until it's proven otherwise.

 

Meh, I stand by it. Live music has the inherent—and yes, objective—benefit of not having to first be converted into digital information, grooves pressed into vinyl, or a magnetic imprint, then converted back to sound waves and passed through a speaker to be heard—something valuable is lost through that process. Particularly with non-amplified live music, there just is no substitute for the sound waves going directly and unprocessed from instruments/voices into the human ear.

But as @BBThunderbolt said yesterday, there’s no point getting into the weeds on this.

 

I agree and I think the analogy is actually pretty good. Not to further derail, but in my opinion Iron Maiden and AC/DC are two bands I prefer to listen to live, even recorded live. And there's nothing that compares to a full symphony orchestra on stage. I play hand bells and live is the only way - recorded bells I find literally painful, missing all nuance and overtones of the real deal and makes finding music a dreadful experience.

I'll still say that some beers suffer less than others, but thinking more about it the effect of the overall experience seems inescapable to me. We have enjoyed a lot of objectively average beers "heightened" by the environment.

 

Well, it was not just his choice since he had a team of folks in a number of tasting panels. He lists a number of the folks in the beginning of the book Acknowledgements section).

Maybe James Robertson (or one of the tasting panel folks) was more fortunate in locating fresh bottles/cans?

Cheers!

 

Larry, do you have a sense on how good the packaging lines are at these breweries? It seems to be a priority today for some (most?) breweries to purchase top notch packaging lines (e.g., low TPO values) but needless to say there will be some exceptions.

I would expect Allagash to purchase top of the line packaging lines but...?

Cheers!