Beers "on the borderline" between ale and lager

Kolsch is a top fermented lager. Not an ale as the Germans don't call any of their beers ales , it's a recent American affectation to attach "ale" to any top fermented brew.
Many of the lighter "Golden Ales" in the UK are designed to attract lager (the macro pale yellow fizzy stuff that is) and are even served at lower temperatures.

 

Would a robust/baltic porter fall into this category?

 

Altbiers, like the previously mentioned Kolsch, are brewed with a top-fermenting yeast but lagered.

 

If you have access to Yards Pale Ale you should give that a shot, as it is brewed with Pilsner malts and tastes a little Lager-ish to me.

 

Just got back a few days a go from a 2-week trip to Duesseldorf and Koeln. The Koelsch and Altbier styles are both delicate in their own ways -- and the variations on flavor profiles are immense. From the assertively hoppy Paeffgen to the nutty Gaffel to the Chardonnay-winey Frueh to the delicate, peppery Malzmuehle among Koelsches...and from the deeply bitter yet balanced Uerige to the complex, layered Schumacher to the balanced, extremely tasty Schluessel (OMB really nailed this clone with their Copper) among the Alts; again, so many variations on a single theme. IMO, these beers (and towns) warrant months (if not years) of exploration.

My homebrewing plan for the new year is to explore 4-5 of these variations per style. The most widely available Koelsch yeast, WLP 029, comes from Frueh and imparts that characteristic winey fruitiness (but a cleaner finish than a typical ale because of the long(er) cold-lagering). When used in conjunction with Weyermann pilsner malt, the 029 will prioduce a sweet-ish version that is a real crowd-pleaser. When mashed at a lower temp with, say, Bestmalz or Shill pilsner malt, you get a husk-y grainier, dryer profile with less wine. Add some Caramunich II to a pilsner malt grain bill -- and stick with the 029 -- and you impart the caramel toastiness found in the Alts. Need to experiment quite a bit more here. Looking for more Koelsch/Alt yeasts....

At any rate, these are fascinating, underappreciated beers, and I, too, have grown to enjoy them immensely. Best of both worlds, if you ask me.

 

Many of the lighter beers here are brewed with Pilsner malt , good old fashioned Maris Otter and Golden promise varieties have too much flavour for the intended taste profiles.

 

I'm very jealous of your trip. Any chance you'll be at The Olde Mecklenburg Brewery next week for the release of their Fat Boy Baltic Porter?

 

Is that on the Saturday? Won't be able to make it, unfortunately. Will be up there the week following, though.

I have to admit, I was astounded by how successfully Olde Mecklenburg nailed the Schluessel Alt (wish I could get that close to Schlenkerla in my brewing!).

OP: if you want to try an excellent U.S.-brewed version of a Alt, try and get your hands on some OMB Copper. As for other styles you make like, try and find some Franconian Kellerbiers: fermented with lager yeasts but for shorter periods of time and unfiltered...excellent stuff. Gives it an estery quality, but with a bready maltiness and clean(ish) finish. Be sure to find them fresh, however, as they fall off quickly.

 

California Common is another example of a hybrid lager/ale style beer. It is traditionally brewed with a lager yeast strain, but fermented at higher ale temperatures. The classic, most readily available example of this style is Anchor Steam. Since lagering can be a bit more tricky to pull off for homebrewers, I have heard of many homebrewers using a California Common yeast strain to produce psuedo-lagered versions of Oktoberfests, Bocks, etc.

 

I have never attempted homebrewing , due to current financial constraints, and other goals taking precedence. I have read quite a bit on the subject, and brewing is certainly in my future. I just had one of them there abstract thoughts, inspired by this thread, and I'm wondering what folks with more knowledge/experience think. How possible/beneficial would it be to do a primary fermentation with an ale yeast, and a secondary with lager, or vice-versa, each with appropriate temperatures and such? Could be interesting, I suppose...though I've ever really been a lagr guy, per se.

 

I think some of the German commercial brewers do that with Weizenbocks. They do a primary with a traditional weizen yeast, producing the banana/clove yeast profile, then cold condition with lager strains. I am almost certain Schneider does this with Aventinus and the Aventinus Eisbock.

 

Are y'all talking about somehow re-pitching with lager yeast after primary? I don't think this is done. Cold temps are all that is needed to get the yeast to sink to the bottom.

 

If I remember correctly, I think Schneider uses it for bottle conditioning. So theoretically, how they could be doing it is first a primary with ale yeast, then an extended cold conditioning (lagering), which would cause almost all the ale yeast to drop out of suspension. Since there would not be enough yeast left to carbonate the beer in the bottle, they would then add the lager yeast to bottle condition. I don't know for a fact that this is how they do it, but it would seem logical to me.

 

Aren't certain yeasts more apt to do their little feeding frenzy/alcohol pooping thing at certain temps? I will do this...then re-pitch with Brett in a bathtub in my shed.....

?????

PROFIT!!!