'Transparency' Mandate Would Burden Small Brewers and Distilleries

Discussion in 'Beer News' started by Bigrock, Aug 25, 2024.

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  1. Bigrock

    Bigrock Maven (1,301) Feb 4, 2013 Texas
    BA4LYFE Society

    https://reason.com/2024/08/24/transparency-mandate-would-burden-small-brewers-and-distilleries/
     
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  2. mactrail

    mactrail Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,999) Mar 24, 2009 Washington
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Is there even a requirement to list the alcohol content on beer these days? Not every bottle has ABV listed. And I can remember when it was almost unheard of, except for Olde English 800 and other tickets to freedom.
     
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  3. moodenba

    moodenba Pooh-Bah (2,502) Feb 2, 2015 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah

    In the 70s, alcohol content was prohibited by ATF, except when required by state law. For example, Oregon required ABW listed for products above 4%ABW. In Washington anything above 4%ABW had to be sold in a liquor store (not the supermarket), so they might have had label indicating ABW or a range. In those days aunt ran a liquor store in Aberdeen and brought my grandparents short cans of Country Club Malt Liquor. I vaguely remember tasting supermarket Rainier Ale from WA, and thinking that it tasted good (4%ABW vs 6% in OR and CA). Now, alcohol is not required by the Feds.
     
  4. DCH

    DCH Savant (1,119) Jun 12, 2013 New York

  5. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Our gubment -- God bless their pea-picking hearts.
     
  6. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Pooh-Bah (2,735) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Is the recipe for Coca-Cola listed on the side of the can? I highly doubt the monks would have to give up their secret recipe and could just group everything under natural flavors…I would love calorie counts and info on what is in my alcohol. Does a whiskey have food coloring in it? Should be listed. Am I getting a cherry chocolate stout with cherries and chocolate added or is it just chemical flavoring? Would be great to know.

    if you don’t like regulations, you probably shouldn’t be working in the alcohol industry.
     
  7. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Pooh-Bah (2,236) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Ingredients can be real basic, and leave a ton grey area about what they specifically are, and also where they are presented in context of an actual recipe.
    Where in distribution of them will all of this additional stuff on an alcohol label become necessary? Will single and two to three state distributed entities really be impacted? Or, is it more to do with regional, on up to national.
     
  8. elNopalero

    elNopalero Grand Pooh-Bah (5,822) Oct 14, 2009 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Like @HouseofWortship, I want to know if my whiskey has food coloring. I want bottling/canning dates, too. Aren’t label regulations already in place for anything that hits distro? I know there’s folks who monitor label approvals/-watching for special releases, or just out of curiosity.

    This article seems more alarmist than useful. Apparently, the push for greater label transparency has been almost two decades in the making.
     
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  9. keilerdunkel

    keilerdunkel Savant (1,014) Apr 8, 2004 Illinois
    Trader

    Thanks for sharing. It’s great to hear what is going on with labeling regulations. However, the article is written with a distinct anti-regulation slant (it is on a libertarian magazine - not that there’s anything wrong with that) that ignores the aspect that other laws will still protect trade secrets (recipes). As mentioned above, there’s a long history of protecting these that won’t go away just because they are trying to standardize information presented on labels.

    there’s no perfect solution - but I’d rather have more information to base my decisions on, than less. Either way, there will always be someone trying to game the system
     
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  10. DCH

    DCH Savant (1,119) Jun 12, 2013 New York

    I would be devastated to find out if my Stop & Shop brand grape soda did NOT in fact contain real grapes.
     
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  11. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,811) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    I'm with you. The quoted portion really highlights the slant from which they're coming:

    "Some people are heralding this as a common-sense transparency reform. In fact, it's another combat theater in the government's war against alcohol."

    That's not how facts work, and it ignores the fact that food labels already require this information. It's kind of ridiculous to suggest that it's part of a war against alcohol when it would align alcohol with the standards enforced for most (not all) products we consume (physically, not economically). Making this an anti-big government argument ignores the government we actually have, right now, and have had for quite some time, unless one is going to pair it with the argument that we need to roll back labeling requirements for all products in general and embrace deregulation entirely (which, to be fair, some people do make as an argument).

    I'm personally ambivalent toward the whole debate over alcohol labeling, but I definitely wouldn't be upset if they disclosed the calories, artificial ingredients, and ABV. Of course there would be an impact to the industry; there's no such thing as a free ride. Sometimes, impacts are worth it; other times, they are not. Cost/benefit disagreements are intrinsic to politics in general, but arguing that because there is an impact, it automatically is not worth it, is dumb (if, you know, you drive on a road, or drink clean water, or went to public school).

    As others pointed out, there's a lot of wiggle room with "natural flavorings" and what-not that not only keeps recipes secret, but also hides what they're using, making the ingredients list sometimes little more than a check in the box. "Natural flavorings" doesn't mean that they've used actual chocolate or cherries, for example; in fact, one can now infer that they probably do not use actual chocolate or cherries if they go with that term instead, but you don't actually know for sure (factually :wink: ) one way or the other.
     
  12. moodenba

    moodenba Pooh-Bah (2,502) Feb 2, 2015 New York
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Any requirements would probably include any production volume. The first problem is to define what an ingredient is. Beer is not the sum of its ingredients, so a recipe isn't what would be needed. Malt, wheat, rice, corn, corn syrup, hops, and usually yeast, are not generally present in the item sold. The chemical process of fermentation has produced a product that is now defined as "beer". Beyond the definition, additional nonstandard ingredients now need to be noted. What to do about barrels, which are a flavoring agent? Currently, alcohol content, if mentioned, needs to be accurate to +-0.3 percent. If alcohol content was required, it might be reasonable to allow small brewers to specify a larger range. The questions about ingredients lists are not easy. Don't expect a rule to be imposed soon (maybe my lifetime?)
     
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  13. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Oh, no! Not again!
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,989) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Agreed. I think ABV, Calorie, Packaged Date, and Ingredient lists would be great requirement for beer.

    Maybe a positive side effect would be the downfall of Pastry Stouts when people see they have 600+ calories in a pint can.

    "Free Minds and Free Markets" - yeah to think this is an un-biased article is silly.
     
  15. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Pooh-Bah (2,735) May 3, 2016 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

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  16. PatKorn

    PatKorn Pundit (971) Aug 30, 2007 Hawaii

    This is a misleading and highly biased article from a Libertarian website. This has been talked about for years, nothing new. The TTB as a government agency is very easy to deal with and has made many changes in the last 4-5 years to make it easy for breweries to get label approval. To say this will "crush" small breweries is misleading. Cheers.
     
  17. DCH

    DCH Savant (1,119) Jun 12, 2013 New York

  18. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yeah, it's much easier and quicker to get through the label approval process the last few years. Especially since Battle retired.
     
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  19. PatKorn

    PatKorn Pundit (971) Aug 30, 2007 Hawaii

    They have gotten rid of SO MUCH stupid shit you used to have to do. Remember writing "formulas" for every beer that had a "special ingredient" for COLA. Probably did 50-60. Mind numbing.
     
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  20. WillieThreebiers

    WillieThreebiers Grand High Pooh-Bah (9,203) Apr 26, 2012 Connecticut
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I'd much rather they mandate canning dates. Seems like just another hoop to screw with the little guy.
     
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