The next time you do so, you should each do a blind comparison. If you notice the difference, it’s an educational moment. If she can’t correctly identify the Texas beer, then you are off the hook from smuggling this beer in the future. You’ve got nothing to lose!
The yeast discussion brings up the anecdote about Fritz Maytag getting fresh yeast from SF area breweries in the 60s. He would rotate from brewery to brewery, each with its own strain, to avoid being classified as a pest. Maybe a little less quality control, but the malts and hops possibly overwhelmed the yeast influence? My old roommate toured Yuengling in the 70s soon after they changed Lord Chesterfield from ale to their lager yeast. They hadn't kept an ale yeast strain themselves. They had been buying fresh yeast shipped from a Canadian brewery, but the yeast often showed up in poor condition. So they switched to their own lager yeast. Schmidt of PA had open fermenters for their ale production. Genesee had separate ale brewing facilities, which I'm sure are gone now. My favorite from the 70s, McSorleys, was probably brewed with lager yeast, both during the Rheingold and Ortlieb ownerships.
Chris, you have a good beer nerd point here but I am just happy to make my sister happy. What I should do is buy a Texas brewed Yuengling Lager and bring it home to conduct a blind triangle test when I return home. Will I remember to do this!?! Hmmm!?! Cheers!
Are you ever able to have a conversation with any of the Von C owners? I drank a lot of Schmidt's between 1977 & 1987. I recall it having a flowery mouthfeel or taste that was distinctive. Do you or anyone else here remember that? Maybe it was from the hops? I'm curious as to what gave it that taste/mouthfeel and maybe the Von C's would tell you (assuming it wasn't a figment of my imagination). I've had their OG Pils, which is a very solid beer, but I didn't think it tasted like the Schmidt's that I remember. I'd like to get up to their brewery some time. I wrote about 90% of the Wikipedia article about the Christian Schmidt Brewing Company.
I drank some Schmidt's, Tiger Head, and Bock from about 77 to the early 80s, attracted by the price and reasonable flavor. I thought Schmidts Beer was as good as most of the available brands in NY metro -- maybe not as good as Schaefer Beer draft at my local. In my mind, Tiger Head Ale came in behind McSorleys Ale (Ortlieb) and Ballantine XXX (Falstaff). In about 1980, Schmidt took over McSorley's when Ortlieb closed. I thought McSorley's suffered from that transition but at least one knowlegeable BA thinks it survived well. After Schmidt closed in the late 80s, the McSorley's Ale brand probably went to Heileman. Whoever made it after Schmidt didn't make a product that lived up to the name, and the ale at the Alehouse and in bottles fell in quality. (For a short time during the transition the Alehouse was supplied with Manhattan Brewery ale. The Alehouse dark was of varying quality depending on the supplier chosen at the time.)
Sierra Nevada uses their famous “Chico” yeast on pretty much every ale short of the Weizen they sometimes make. I think many assumed that they used something different on their Hazy beers, but SN employee Terrance confirmed on here that they use Chico for that also. Their yeast is offered by most yeast suppliers as “American or California” ale or the one that sticks with me, 1056. They do use true bottom fermenting strains for the lagers that they make.
I liked Schaefer too - I thought it had a crisp taste. I'm pretty sure that the first McSorleys that I had was made by Ortlieb's. I'd get it at a liquor store in West Atlantic City. I don't remember it changing when Schmidt's started making it, but it might have.. Whoever made it, it was a bargain - it was either $1.75 or $2.75 a 6-pack in the early 80s. I lived in South Jersey, which should have been Schmidt's territory, but the only time I ever saw Tiger Head Ale was in Bethlehem PA in 1986 when I got together with some college friends. We all bought cases and swapped out bottles. I bought Twentieth Century Ale (another Schmidt's product), one of my friends bought Tiger Head Ale, and another Adam Scheidt Lager. I seem to recall the ales tasting similar but that Twentieth Century had a kick ass label, while Tiger Head's label looked cheap. The Adam Scheidt lager I don't remember anything about.
Since you mentioned "Adam Scheidt" I thought you might be interested in the Von C beer they branded as Prior Preferred Czech Pilsner. This was a re-creation of a beer that Adam Scheidt brewed 'back in the day' (i.e., circa 1940). I enjoyed drinking this beer: "Overall: This beer is very good - excellent! This beer is very nicely balanced between the malt and hop flavors and I really enjoy the richness aspect of the malt profile." https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/new-beer-weekend-137.671764/#post-7721120 Na Zdravi
Mcsorleys was a bargain. Once I special ordered a 1/2 barrel for a backyard picnic and paid maybe the same price as Bud or maybe a bit less. No other Ortlieb products to be seen. In the late 70s Schmidts was common in the "beverage stores" on Long Island, but rarely or never on draft, The "beverage stores" also generally carried McSorleys and Tiger Head. My local beer store also carried Ballantine XXX Ale in returnable tall quarts, which I bought for homebrew..
It seems to me that if all the brands that your company brews are all different named brands but they all taste pretty much alike, such as the AB InBev family of brands of pale lagers or AALs, you can get away with using a house yeast, whether it's proprietary or one that is available in the public domain. However, if you brew various other or certain specific styles (hefeweizens) that you want to fit the taste characteristics of those styles, then other yeasts have to be used. There are around 1,500 known brewer's yeasts, so might as well brew by choosing the one that bests fits the beer that you want to be the best it can be.
Thank you for your generous offer! I will be visiting family and friends in Texas in the fall and I can purchase the beer then. If I remember. Cheers!
Oops. Forgot that Ortlieb made Olde English (Blitz Weinhard, Philadelphia), and it was obviously available.
Ballantines Ale, McSorleys, Huber Bock, and Chesterfield Ale... makes me wonder whether we're living in a better world after all.
Yeah, great stuff - using the 'dba' name of Adam Scheidt, the Norristown brewery they bought in 1954 and operated until 1974. To me, it tasted identical to Schmidt's version of McSorley's Cream Ale - which made sense, because originally Schmidt sold the label to Ortlieb after buying the Rheingold brands because McSorley's sales were considered too small to bother with. So, an easy way to sell more of the ale by using two packages. (And IIRC it came in brown glass bottles - another plus). Only found Tiger Head once (maybe before Rheingold closed) and I was not impressed - but I could see them changing the recipe after starting to brew McSorley's and thus using a third package for the same beer. Schmidt's was still marketing the Scheidt label "Ram's Head Ale" into the 1970s, too. (Can't recall if I ever saw or had it).
In this thread there has been quite a bit of discussion about the beer brands of yore. Below is a video that was dropped 1 day ago on YouTube that may bring back some memories for those beer brands of yore. Cheers! P.S. There was ‘confusion’ between Schmidt and Schmidt’s in the video. Also, Jax beer has some ‘confusion’ since it was brewed by two separate brewery businesses, one in New Orleans, LA and the other in Jacksonville, FL. And while I have no recollection of drinking a Schaefer beer I do remember as a kid their snappy jingle which included: “one beer to have when you're having more than one”. It would have been cool if Schaefer was part of the video.
Tiger Head was pretty widely available at Long Island Beer Stores from at least 1978 into the mid 80s. It tasted nothing like Ortlieb's McSorley's. I thought that, after Schmidt started brewing McSorley's, it had a family resemblance to Tiger Head. I don't remember seeing Ram's head or 20th Century. Tiger Head price was about 10c a six pack more than Schmidt Beer. My preferred beer store's owner hauled Lord Chesterfield out from Queens himself and charged 10c a six pack more than Tiger Head. I thought Ortlieb's McSorley's (I didn't have Rheingold version) was much better than either Chesterfield or Tiger Head. It also cost more.
I have no personal experience with Schmidt’s Tiger Head Ale (before my time) but below is how James D, Robertson detailed this beer in his book The Great American Beer Book: “SCHMIDT’S TIGER HEAD ALE – deep gold color with a tinge of brown, very little aroma, light taste and slightly on the bitter side, great bitterness in the finish. Not unpleasant, and reasonably good for the type, but not very alelike. Available irregularly through the northeastern US.” The statement of “not very alelike” makes me wonder if perhaps Schmidt’s fermented this product with their lager yeast strain. In a newspaper article from 2021 (see link below) there is discussion that Von C Brewing will ‘recreate’ this beer: “In the von C vision, popular Scheidt brews like Rams Head Ale and Tiger Head Ale will be reborn for the modern palate, thanks to the hiring of Brew Master Adam Brozzetti, who spent nearly 20 years as Schmidt’s Brew Master until the brewery closed in 1987. “We don’t have rights to the Schmidt name but we have the last of the Master Brewers from the company with us. Adam has recipes going all the way back in the family that we’re recreating today,” Rick said. “He brings the expertise from working for Schmidt’s, so he’s a large asset for us.” https://www.dailylocal.com/2021/05/...f-norristown-revives-nostalgic-brand-of-beer/ To the best of my knowledge neither brand of Rams Head Ale or Tiger Head Ale has been produced by Von C Brewing (yet?). Cheers!
In Wikipedia's C. Schmidt article, the reference [65]: Wagner, Rich, "Remembering Schmidt's: Beer as Beer Should Be", Mid-Atlantic Brewing News, December 2006/January 2007 is cited as saying about Schmidt operations: "After it left the brew house, lager and ale were fermented and stored in separate buildings.[65] The Ale Storage building, which had been built as part of the 1930s building program and completed around 1940, was particularly impressive. In the 1980s it was still called "the new ale cellar".[65] In it, ale was still fermented in tall open wooden fermenters made of California redwood and then aged in wooden storage tanks.[65]" Robertson called McSorleys Cream Ale "a fine ale" with no detection of lager yeast there. However, McSorleys was purportedly brewed with lager yeast both in Rheingold and Ortliebs proprieterships. Of course Schmidt's ales could still have been fermented with lager yeast. But I'd guess that Schmidt and Genesee (who had a separate ale brewery) were probably the last of the US old line brewers of top fermented ale.
Bill Moeller, who brewed McSorley's Cream Ale for both Ortlieb and C. Schmidt's was quoted in an interview with PA beer writer Jack Curtain, who first notes that "Ortlieb's ales were brewed in open wooden fermenters": Moeller also mentions that Maytag stopped into Ortlieb when he was headed to the UK to study ale brewing, and M. Jackson* also visited Ortlieb and became friendly with Moeller. Ortlieb promo material about their version of Neuweiler Cream Ale (previous to getting the McSorley rights) noted that ale was fermented with a "special top fermenting yeast of Canadian origin." Beer writer Ben Novak wrote a series of articles in 1986 about McSorley's and other Schmidt products: Both the 1982 and 1983 GABF programs claimed Schmidt's McSorley's was "(b)rewed as a traditional ale with top fermenting yeast". *Jackson, of course, is also the source for suggesting McSorley's wasn't fermented with top fermenting (ale) yeast, in his 1982 Pocket Guide to Beer under any of the 3 1970-1980s brewers; Although Liebmann>Rheingold took over the McSorley's label in the early 1940s, they had dropped the bottled version by the 1960s (?), only to revive it a year or so before going out of business, in 1976. So, after their home Brooklyn closed - and their main brewery was the Orange NJ plant (once operated by Trommer's - which did brew an ale for a short time ) was their last brewery after closing New Bedford, MA around the same time. I've never seen mention of what yeast they used, other than some ads that mentioned a "special yeast". Now, it's possible that a different bottom-fermenting yeast was used for McSorley's than the "house yeast" of those 3 brewers. Maybe a lager yeast that just performed better under high fermentation temps? (Apparently that's what Schoenling did for their Little King's Cream Ale - a bottom ferm. yeast that they referred to as their "ale" yeast, meaning they used it for their ale). But if that was the case, it suggests that some "bastard ale" brewers didn't use their standard lager yeast simply to save money, effort and prevent cross-contamination. It is odd how often the term "true ale" and similar expression are used. Typically, I've always taken that to mean "...with top fermenting ale yeast" but maybe some used it as a way to avoid admitting they were brewing a bastard ale - warm fermented with lager yeast?
