A local brewery has what it calls a "Slovenian Pilsner". I wasn't sure what to add it under (German Pilsner? European Pale Lager?), so went with European lager. If these Euro Pilsners start popping up more and more, should a European Pilsner category be considered?
I think European Lager was the right choice. Unless it becomes ubiquitous and has distinct characteristics to that specific style (i.e., Italian pilsner, although I know half of BAs will disagree), then we probably don't need a new/separate style.
Yeah that's where it gets weird. They are using Slovenian hops and Italian Pilsners are another confusing one also. Cheers !
Yeah, it can definitely seem confusing at first — especially since “Italian Pilsner” isn’t about ingredients so much as approach. The roots go straight back to Tipopils from Birrificio Italiano in the mid-’90s. Agostino Arioli basically took a German-style pils, kept the same noble hops, and gave it an Italian twist — a gentle dry-hop for aroma rather than bitterness. That’s the difference: it’s not trying to reinvent the wheel, it’s just tuning it. Think of it as a pils brewed al dente — crisp, aromatic, balanced, and meant to highlight finesse over flash. Cheers!
OK, I'll be that guy. First though, I appreciate your post and the information contained therein. That being said... I've tried several different Italian pils over the past few years, and have to confess I just don't get it. It's reached the point that I've given up on the style and never order it. This is from a guy who is a big fan of German and Czech pils. So I feel like this is a style I'm predisposed to appreciate. And yet.... my impression at this point is that "Italian" is a synonym for bland, when used in the context of Italian pils. It's simply not what I'm looking for in a pils.
It's not al dente, it's pils with a tasteful garnish, along the lines of a sprinkling of parsley chiffonade.
Fair point, and honestly, I get where you’re coming from. I used to be that guy too — fire in my chest defending the style like it needed saving. These days I’ve mellowed out a bit and can appreciate that it’s not for everyone. I’ve only had maybe two actual Italian-made Pilsners myself, so my take comes more from the history and intent behind them than deep tasting experience. You’re right that not all examples land — a lot of the American interpretations especially lean too soft or lose the finesse that Tipopils had in the first place. So I get it. You’re not wrong for wanting that snap and precision of a German or Czech pils. The Italian approach is more like a whisper than a shout — sometimes that subtlety just doesn’t translate. Cheers, man.
Touché — I’ll give you that one. Parsley chiffonade has a nice ring to it, actually. I’ll happily raise a glass to that kind of garnish — as long as the pils underneath is clean and honest.
Yeah, there is indeed a ‘story’ about this but… “There is a ‘belief’ that a Pilsner that incorporates dry hopping yields an Italian Pilsner since the Agostino Arioli ‘discovered’ dry hopping for his Pilsner Tipo Pils back in 1996. I posted the below in a past thread and you will read that some German breweries have been dry hopping their lagers for generations. “According to Arioli, the Italian style is defined by simple metrics: It must be light in color, between 4 and 5.4 percent alcohol by volume, and, most critically, should be dry-hopped using only traditional German or Czech hops, also known as noble hops, “or new varieties that resemble the traditional ones,” he says.” There may be some exceptions but the criteria of “must be light in color” and “between 4 and 5.4 percent alcohol by volume” is consistent for many (most) Pilsners. So, let’s further discuss the third criterion of “should be dry-hopped using only traditional German or Czech hops, also known as noble hops…”.Well, this is not unique either since German brewer have been doing this as well for generations. This was discussed by me in a past thread: “And German breweries have been dry hopping their beers (including Pilsners) for generations: “German breweries that dry hops their Pilsners/Lagers “Kopp wrote via email that members of traditional family breweries acknowledge their ancestors were familiar with the technique. In some cases, those breweries are making dry-hopped lagers today. Ruperti Pils from Brauerei Wieninger in upper Bavaria is an example of one.” https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/brewers-perspective-the-origins-and-elements-of-tipopils.645790/page-2#post-70575 It would appear that Arioli thinks he is doing something novel via dry hopping his Pilsner but German brewers have been doing (and still are doing) this before he was born. The so called “Italian Pilsner” is simply a German Pilsner which includes the aspect of dry hopping with European hops. Nothing really new to see here.” Cheers!
Jack, I appreciate the detailed insight, truly. Despite my love for Italian craft and my own family roots, I completely understand your point — the “story” of the Italian Pilsner doesn’t necessarily rewrite anything that German brewers weren’t already doing. I sometimes think that story might’ve been rewritten a bit over the years. In Arioli’s case, I’ve always seen it as him following the German school of brewing — simply doing it in Italy, not claiming to have invented anything new. I’m sure there’s also Arioli’s own perspective out there in Italian interviews or articles that could clarify how he viewed it personally — whether he gave that “Italian Pilsner” narrative his blessing or not. And while I don’t recall if you ever chimed in back when I was posting about Italian beer in the early 2010s, I’ve definitely seen your name around since then. Your consistency and context really help ground discussions like this, and it’s great to revisit the topic with more understanding now than I had back then. Cheers, and thanks again for adding depth to the conversation.
For your consideration an extract from an online article (with emphasis in bold by me): "On a trip to Brooklyn in September 2017, Stefano Erreni, co-founder and brewer of Denmark’s Slowburn Brewing Co-op, noticed that every brewery he visited seemed to have a dry-hopped Pilsner. Bafflingly, they were all called “Italian Pilsner.” “I was like, ‘What’s an Italian Pilsner?’ And everyone was like, ‘It’s a dry-hopped Pilsner, like Tipopils. Aren’t you Italian?’” He replied: “Yes, I’m Italian, but we don’t call it Italian Pilsner in Italy.” As far as I am concerned, a German Pilsner that includes the step of dry hopping is just a German Pilsner which happens to be dry hopped. Feel free to call it an 'new' beer style if you are so inclined. Cheers!
Haha, fair enough, Jack — that quote nails it. The whole “we don’t call it Italian Pilsner in Italy” bit really captures how stories can take on a life of their own once they cross borders. At the end of the day, I’ve always looked at it more as a conversation between brewing schools than a new flag being planted. German foundation, Italian expression, and a lot of respect in between. Appreciate you bringing that context — always good to keep the lens clear when we talk about lineage and not just labels.
Nah, that's just someone trying to generate interest in their beer. More than likely the only reason they call it Slovenian is because they hopped it with Styrian Golding. I've seen one in my area as well. European lager is the way to go with it.
Not every beer from every place needs to be a unique style. Unless there's something truly unique about it, there's nothing wrong with using the big bucket styles.
Quoting the late great Frank Zappa: "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline".
I tried and tried to bring up "American Pilsner" on BA in a thread and it largely produced the sound of...when you put a conch shell up to your ear type-of-a-sound.
Agree with this. Out here we have a "problem" with brewers calling their pils WC pils and PNW pils. It's really just marketing, but also to let you know the pils is likely going to be hoppier than the traditional style(s). I guess I don't understand why they don't simply brand it as a "hoppy pils." Maybe WC or PNW is more catchy?
