Bayernbiere Bought and Drunk

Huh, of what does this remind me? No, no -- wait, don't tell me -- it'll come to me...

(to this, I went to a beer tasting at a local, good retailer over the weekend -- I think I sampled 3 small tastes. Never saw so many IPAs and Imperial Stouts in my life -- >yaaawn!<)

 

When your resources are limited the only way to raise output is by compromising quality. Especially since all you Americans buy up all our hops and drive up the price

We have indeed talked about that and the answer then and now is, there's 2 main reasons.
1) Young people being too damn lazy and not wanting to work a job that requires that you are basically glued to your kettle and work it 24/7 year in year out. Unless you really really love beer they'd much rather work a nice cozy 8 to 4 office job with weekends off and 32 days of mandatory vacation time every year.
2) The European Union and their infernal legislation that basically makes it financial suicide to take over your Dad's brewery unless you got at least 50 Grand to install additional crap you'll never need just to comply.
Deciding to not bother is hardly reactionary, it's pretty understandable.

That indeed we are, at least by American standards. But then, knowing both sides of the coin, I'd rather have a grouchy German over some clueless Indian call center slave.

You are just describing pretty much everyone who has managed to evade the pitfalls I meantioned above. Growing too big, spreading out too far is the arch-trauma of all Germans and what happens to those breweries who once were treasured regional breweries ? InBev, Heineken or some other faceless conglomerate bought them and gutted them and turned them into yet another faceless purveyor of piss.

 

Well ?

It all comes down to "I know / drink / can handle more extreme / weird / bizarre stuff than you so I'm better than you". They aren't actually dropping their pants but it's still a penis comparing contest. Can these people please move on and drink fermented yak piss instead ?

 

Starts with a "B"... I'll get it, gimme some time -- it's Monday.

 

This is false. Using different (ale) yeasts can boost production by 300%, sometimes more if you consider lagering big (doppel)bocks for extended periods of time.

 

You mean use ale yeasts and shorter lagering times for traditional German styles...nah, that won't compromise quality. Can't wait for the German equivalent of New Belgium Shift!

 

And changing a recipie is not compromising how ?

 

The fermentation time of an ale yeast is about 7 days, and can generally be racked after 10-12 days. Any lager needs about 30 days from brewing to racking.

 

This is PRECISELY the danger I fear from U.S. "craft" influence. So many people claim that U.S. craft lagers -- which are more often than not produced on ale schedules and using inferior products and other production methods -- are as good as the German traditional styles. Fact is, these short cuts take a major toll on the final quality: anyone who has traveled and drank in the traditional centers of German brewing can tell you this in no uncertain terms. Still, as we see in the U.S. and with younger generations of beer drinkers, these passable versions of the classics are not only sufficient replacements for -- but also held up (read: marketed) as "innovative" when compared to -- their traditional counterparts. I, for one, will not have any part of such foolishness and will fight as long as necessary to make sure German beer doesn't simply "shift" its source of corruption from the conglomerates to these upstarts.

 

I am not suggesting that one should brew a lager with an ale yeast. What I am saying is that the original statement is simply false. And please do not compare apples to oranges, judging that a stout/ale is inherently inferior to a doppelbock or any other lager.

 

Vice versa seems to be more prevalent on BA.

It's not judging one as inferior to another, it's understanding why they're different.

There are so many "bock beers" in the US that are nothing more than brown ales or porters (try Anchor's Bock alongside their Porter). If I want a Bock, I don't want a Porter. And, uh -- vice versa.

*Hope I didn't negate the "like" with my edits!

 

Had some Sam Adams Alpine Spring yesterday (which I enjoyed quite a bit last year) that tasted so grainy I almost dumped it.

 

There is a culture shock associated with being a consumer in America vs. being a consumer in Germany, and I agree wholeheartedly with Boddhitree as far as that is concerned. The longer I live in Germany,however, the happier I am with the beer culture here. I don't think Germany needs to be more like America in either their brews (i.e., making IPA's, Imperial Stouts, etc.) or their marketing/selling of said brews. German countryside brewers simply don't have the ambition to be a country-wide phenomenon. They aren't going to brew more beer because they don't care if they can sell it in Heidelberg or not. They're about making the beer, not makin' that paper. Good for them.

And I do miss the heck out of those IPA's by the way.

 

Ah yes, the altruistic German brewer who brews for the love of beer and mankind. And the US brewer who only wants to take your money... end//sarcasm

In the end, no matter what you do, it's a business. Period. You can be happy with what you have or chose to expand if you can sell enough, or at least grow organically. Soon you will hit a maximum on production and need to make decisions. Unfortunately, it's the other way around in Germany, in case you haven't noticed. Overcapacity, low prices, high barriers to market (pay to play at retail, financed gastronomy) combined with declining consumption is killing many breweries, and has been for many years. Which means status quo does not work - something has to budge.

AGAIN, and I repeat myself: the most elegant and believable (glaubwürdig) tool for German brewers to stay alive is to reinvent the old German styles (which could include ale yeasts) and possibly integrate English or Belgian styles into that mix if deemed "sellable" in their market. For many it's that or "sterben in Schönheit".

 

I agree with this. And, again, I would add that plenty of places are already doing it. I was amazed at the number of new beers that have appeared in Bamberg and surroundings in just the past two years. I say let this direction gain some footing first instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I'm certain the traditional brewers have a close eye on the folks doing the U.S.-influenced stuff (I know for a fact that Trum and Michel do) -- and they're waiting to see if it's a passing fad or something that will gain serious traction. Perhaps some of these people also have an eye on the U.S. scene -- where the trend toward ever more extreme "innovations" is actually losing much of its influence now.

If I had to bet on what will happen in Germany, I'd say that things will follow a familiar pattern you see in that country as regards matters of popular culture in general: the country as a whole comes a bit late to the game as regards the "new trend/wave of the future." After much of the original enthusiasm has died where the trend originated, Germany dives in head first and embraces a distilled "essence" of the movement (my guess when talking about "craft" beer: a grapefruity IPA). Long after U.S. craft beer geeks have abandoned the now ubiquitous grapefruity IPAs in their own country as too pedestrian, the Germans will still be advertising them at elevated prices in every disco, "craft" beer bar, and Studentenkneipe, where -- alongside Corona, etc. -- they will find a market and enjoy a degree of lasting success (EDIT: if you need a musical equivalent to this phenomenon, think Frank Zappa's "Bobby Brown")

 

I don't know. I see the Germans being much more likely to find the "one" Exemplar (not necessarily a single brand, but a single, specific style) that suits their needs and to stick with that. All that variety would likely just confuse them. (Another pop culture example: Wer Wird Millionaer; the U.S. had dozens such quiz shows and they all lost their audience, whereas Germany pretty much latched on to and stuck with WWM long after other countries had abandoned it. I could go on and on with analogous examples, and I suspect anyone who has lived in Germany would be able to as well )

 

"geekification"

Whew-wee, look at Stahlsturm speak jive!

Prost!