Fermenting fruit pure on souring strains

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by JimmyTango, Mar 29, 2012.

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  1. JimmyTango

    JimmyTango Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2011 California

    I was wondering what could be expected from a primary fermentation of fruit pure on 100% funky yeast strains.

    Will the expected flavor profiles develop in an environment dominated by fruit juice sugars and acids?

    I was thinking of pairing some interesting fruit/ bug combos and leting them develop in some 1 gal jugs so that I could use for blending or starting future batches of otherwise clean beer.

    The plan was to do 1 gal apricot on Brett B, one gal figs or currants on lacto/pedo sour blend, one gal peaches or raspberries on Brett C, and one gal cherries on Brett L. Once they get to the deisted level of funkyness I could experiment with blending into my regular brews.

    Any opinions? Am I missing anything?

    **edit: I guess the title should read "funky" strains as I realize not all of the bugs I mentioned will produce strictly sour beer.**
     
  2. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Just a couple observations. Don't use Pedio w/o Brett, it throws off tons of Diacetyl that the Brett cleans up, and w/o it you'll have sour fig juice with popcorn butter; maybe just use the Lacto since there won't be any hops in the puree to inhibit it. The other thing is that the yeast (Brett) might get used to the simpler sugars from the fruits and then not want to go for the more complex sugars in the wort. Just a thought, and I could be wrong. If I am wrong, go for it, sounds like it would work if you were able to get it to still want the complex malt sugars.
     
  3. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 California

    I have done this a few times. I suggest letting the beer age a while on the bugs/wild yeast for a period by itself. I find adding the fruit in the last 2-4 months before bottling gives the best fruit flavors, allows the sugars to be eaten, and allows the bugs to mingle with the fruit.

    On sour beers I want a lot of fruit flavor I have added fruit in 2 stages, once with an estimated 4-6 months left and a second time with 2-3 months left before bottling. Here are some pics.

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  4. JimmyTango

    JimmyTango Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2011 California

    Did you ferment the fruit seperately? I know that adding fruit to an already sour beer during secondary can produce tasty beer, but I was trying to avoid tying up entire carboys for extended periods of time by souring/ funkifying the fruit independantly and then adding post fermentation to otherwise independanlty brewed clean beer.

    For instance... I like the cumin-like funk Brett B adds to big, pale beers. So I thought I could get an apricot Brett B juice going soon, let it funk up all summer, and add it to a Citra DIPA that I want to brew in September. The desired effect being a batch of otherwise standard issue Citra DIPA with a few 6ers of apricot-brett Citra DIPA thrown in the mix without any aging.

    Or do the same to a batch of saison with the sour currant juice.... no?
     
  5. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 California

    I might be a little confused, but it sounds like you are interested in blending various styles and clean/wild brews

    From what you are describing, adding wild brewed beer to regular beer there are a couple of concerns I would have. The first is there are a lot of sugars left in the regular beer that will be eaten by the wild yeast/bugs. You would either need to consume quickly or tailor how much priming sugar you add. Otherwise beware of bottle bombs.
    The other thing is sour beers take a while to develop and can go through weird phases (especially young). I would be worried that once you blend the two beers the wild bugs will eat the left over sugars and give an awkward flavor that only time could heal.

    However, I know commercially what you are describing has been done (3 Philosophers, Transatlantic Kriek). If possible you could filter out the wild bugs and some how stop them from eating anything else. Others might have experience with this and can point you in a better direction.

    here is what I have done in the beers pictured above.

    The top picture is of a sour quad. The large carboy is 5 gallons with no fruit, the one gallon is the same beer with 2 lbs of cherry. After 3 months on cherries I blended a little bit of the regular with the cherry version then bottled each version. From brew to bottle date was about 1 year.

    The other beers are of 6 gallons of a pale session sour (only 3.5%ABV). After about 6 months I put about one gallon of the sour on various fruit (about 1.5 lbs), after 3 months I transferred the 1 gallon containers of fruit sour to another 1 gallon container containing more fruit. I just bottled these last week, brew to bottle is about 14 months.
     
  6. JimmyTango

    JimmyTango Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2011 California

    Thanks for the info. The awkwardly young flavors is something to think about and defnately addresses one of my main questions/ concerns.

    I was thinking of pasturizing the sour beers prior to blending. If I pasturize with heat, what effect will raising the temp that much have on the flavor?

    Also, what do you guys think would be a good ratio of fruit:wort to get a good balance that maximizes fruit and funky flavors. I'm wondering if the quick and easy fermentation that the simple fruit fructose will provide will negate much of the character that seems to be provided from the long, slow fermentation of more complex dextrins found in wort.

    I think I'm in over my head. I am admittedly VERY new (like 5 batches new) to brewing and I guess I get a little too excited sometimes.
     
  7. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 California

    I have never done it, but I am not sure you want to heat your beer up to pasteurizing temperature. At this temp you would be very close to the boiling point of alcohol, and I would guess there could be some damage to your beer.

    just doing a quick search here are some suggestions

    http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=&t=21672 (do this just to the wild batch, involves a dual counter flow setup)

    http://www.pasteurizers.info/2009/06/pasteurizing-homebrew-to-increase-shelf.html (note: your beer would need to be fully carbed before doing this method)

    since you are new, but interested in brewing some sours what I would suggest is brewing a normal clean beer that would be good for souring (Belgian Pale Ale, Quad, American wheat ale, etc). Then take 1 gallon of this beer and add in dregs/culture. Let this beer sit for a LONG time, like 9 months to a year, tasting every 3 months or so. This will give you an idea on what to expect. Towards the end, when you think the beer is tasting about how you want for bottling you can add some fruit you think will compliment the flavor of the beer. After a month or two, start tasting again to gauge when to bottle. You might want to add a little bit of yeast for bottling. Doing this will help you learn a little more about the process.

    and by near default when talking about brewing wild brews, check out this guy's blog:

    http://www.themadfermentationist.com/
     
  8. JimmyTango

    JimmyTango Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2011 California

    Oh, I am already completely obsessed with themadfermentionist! I think my next batch is going to be a light saison a al the hoppy french saison posted on the above mentioned blog.

    I think I'll keep the mash temp pretty high to counter the the ultra high attenuation that the yeats promises. Reckon this could be as good a candate as any for a sour blonde :slight_smile:
     
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