Advocacy vs. Rip-offs

Discussion in 'Trade Talk' started by 1up, Apr 22, 2013.

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  1. 1up

    1up Initiate (0) Mar 5, 2013 District of Columbia

    I've encountered this sitution many times in my less than 2 months here and BeerAdvocate and it's becoming frustrating. I'd say that most people are not jerks and most of the people I have traded with pose no problem here. Maybe you guys can weigh in.

    What is an advocate? From what I gather so far, an advocate is someone who tries to promote the craft beer scene and grow the community in a selfless way. Maybe there's more to it, so feel free to add. I've recently encountered a trader who has tried to hide under the veil of advocacy in order to get me to agree to a trade I do not think is fair. In no way would it be advocacy in my opinion for me to make this trade. He is not sharing this beer with people to promote it, nor is he using it for some other worthy cause. He merely wants to drink it fresh, he claims. So then I ask, why accuse me of not being an advocate so that you can encourage me to part with my beer in a trade that I don't see as fair.

    I've done plenty of my share of advocacy. Whether it's answering questions on the forum, sharing beers with my BMC friends to sway them, giving away beers to people that can't otherwise access them for geographic or financial reasons, etc.. But I'm appalled at this attempt to cowardly hide behind the veil of advococy because this person did not get his/her way.

    As the community grows, the industry will inevitably become more cutthroat. Both on the producer side, and on the consumer side because when there's money in something it attracts the wrong people. More brewers will employ BMC type strategies, consumers will hoard beers that trade well and try to make trades that favor them.

    Help me out guys, what is advocacy and how should we be using the term or "throwing it around"?
     
    #1 1up, Apr 22, 2013
    Duff27 likes this.
  2. ehammond1

    ehammond1 Initiate (0) Jul 4, 2008

    There's no reason to argue over the ultimately trivial definition of a word. We won't reach consensus, nor does it matter.

    We are all people. In any community, there are good people, bad people, ugly people, etc. Deal with those you feel comfortable with and those that reciprocate your generosity. Don't get hung up over the word "advocacy." We're all just here to drink beer and waste time, truthfully.
     
    #2 ehammond1, Apr 22, 2013
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  3. SSEngelbrecht

    SSEngelbrecht Initiate (0) Jan 25, 2010 Louisiana

    Very well said. I wish that was the header for every thread.
     
    #3 SSEngelbrecht, Apr 22, 2013
    ehammond1 likes this.
  4. smartassboiler

    smartassboiler Pooh-Bah (2,518) Apr 9, 2012 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've only been in a few trade discussions, but beer appears to be no different than any sort of trading community, not that this is shocking. There's a strong amount of good people on here, but there's also a lot of other people who think their beer is gold and yours isn't, or who feel entitled to be hooked up simply because they're a part of this community. Signing up on BeerAdvocate does not grant you anything.

    I feel your frustration because I've encountered it as well. You have to remain patient, but eventually you'll meet some good people. My suggestion in this instance is to simply move on and find someone else to trade with.
     
    #4 smartassboiler, Apr 22, 2013
  5. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Find peace with these truths:

    -You are alive during fantastic time for beer
    -A very tiny fraction of even the most sought after beers end up being traded
    -Many amazing beers will come and go without you getting to taste them
    -You will get to taste many amazing beers that most others will not
     
    #5 leedorham, Apr 22, 2013
    chardlogic, mikecharley, Sarlacc83 and 17 others like this.
  6. OddNotion

    OddNotion Pooh-Bah (1,915) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Based on your vague description of the trade in question its kinda hard to see what you mean here.

    If you dont like the other person's request then just dont trade the beer. Cant be ripped off if you dont let it happen.
     
    #6 OddNotion, Apr 22, 2013
  7. JulianB

    JulianB Initiate (0) Feb 1, 2012 South Carolina

    Maybe I've been lucky (or maybe it's just because I haven't done that many trades), but since I started trading a almost a half-year ago I've had nothing but great experiences with all the people who I've traded with: good communication, clear agreement on deals, timely shipping, solid packing, great extras, nice favors done (picking up limited/fresh releases), etc. It's always a shame to hear about these negative stories.
     
    #7 JulianB, Apr 22, 2013
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  8. minnesotaryan

    minnesotaryan Initiate (0) Dec 27, 2010 Minnesota

    advocacy: hooking up the homies, hooking up people you don't even know - just because, sharing, being passionate about beer and telling others about how awesome it is, not being a dick, and NEVER making DICK MOVES!
     
    #8 minnesotaryan, Apr 23, 2013
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  9. channels321

    channels321 Initiate (0) Apr 16, 2012 Texas

    You didn't even get my box yet and you're gonna call me out!

    J/K, you were pretty awesome to deal with so hopefully this one bad situation wont prevent you from dealing.g with others in the future. But if you don't feel comfortable dealing with someone just don't do it, let them know and that should be that.


     
    #9 channels321, Apr 23, 2013
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  10. ForkAndSpoonOp

    ForkAndSpoonOp Initiate (0) May 4, 2011 Pennsylvania

    People get really hung up on the name of this website...
     
    #10 ForkAndSpoonOp, Apr 23, 2013
    chardlogic, Deltoro, kmello69 and 1 other person like this.
  11. kmello69

    kmello69 Initiate (0) Nov 27, 2011 Texas

    I'd like to actually hear the deal that made someone tell you you're not being an "advocate"
     
    #11 kmello69, Apr 23, 2013
  12. Wowcoolman

    Wowcoolman Pooh-Bah (1,660) Sep 25, 2010 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    People hanging out on this website are already converts. If you really want to advocate beer, bring killer bottles (not whales,mind you) to your next party/social gathering and share with everyone whether or not they know Pliny from PBR.
     
    #12 Wowcoolman, Apr 23, 2013
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  13. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Pooh-Bah (2,239) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    If you were an advocate you wouldn't be hung up on things like the value of bottles and whether a trade is fair. Or is the dude taking advantage of you money-wise?
     
    #13 BearsOnAcid, Apr 23, 2013
  14. 1up

    1up Initiate (0) Mar 5, 2013 District of Columbia

    The trade was

    2 KBS + 2 BCBS for 3 CW BCS and 3 CW BBBW
    KBS - $7
    BCBS - $7
    BCS - $3
    BBBW - $3
     
    #14 1up, Apr 23, 2013
  15. Brez07

    Brez07 Initiate (0) Sep 29, 2009 Maine

    Unless I'm missing something here, nothing in this trade needs to be drank "fresh" as your potential trader claims. Some prefer KBS or coffee stouts (we are talking about CW Coffee Stout, right?) new vs. aged, but it's not exactly going to fall off the table like an IPA might after a month or two. The money is a bit off though...
     
    #15 Brez07, Apr 23, 2013
  16. 1up

    1up Initiate (0) Mar 5, 2013 District of Columbia

    He wants his KBS fresh, says that's how he likes it.
     
    #16 1up, Apr 23, 2013
  17. JulianB

    JulianB Initiate (0) Feb 1, 2012 South Carolina

    Those prices for KBS and BCBS seem a bit high...
     
    #17 JulianB, Apr 23, 2013
  18. 1up

    1up Initiate (0) Mar 5, 2013 District of Columbia

    Well yes, and the prices on the CW stuff is a bit high too. I rounded up.
     
    #18 1up, Apr 23, 2013
  19. evilcatfish

    evilcatfish Pooh-Bah (2,116) May 11, 2012 Missouri
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've had a couple trades that I regretted after the fact and felt the person was trying to just "win." Looking back I wish I hadn't done them, but instead of "outing" the person or bitching with them I've chosen to just not trade with them anymore. Part of me wants to mention the trades, believe me, but I think its classier to keep my mouth shut
     
    #19 evilcatfish, Apr 23, 2013
    1up likes this.
  20. kmello69

    kmello69 Initiate (0) Nov 27, 2011 Texas

    Are you trading the KBS and BCBS? Then yes, he needs to come to the table with a little bit more. Your end is a bit more rare/hard to get, so you should at least be even on the $. Personally, I'd have been willing to go over if I really wanted some KBS and BCBS (I have plenty, so I'm not fishing here).

    Seems like he just wants you to roll over on it in the name of "advocacy" which I wouldnt do. Sometimes you have to walk away from a trade/offer - thats just how it goes.
     
    #20 kmello69, Apr 23, 2013
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