"Make me an offer" trades?

That'd be considered auctioning, which is against policy, and likely would result in the post being flagged/deleted.

I understand the intent, though. It can be difficult to gauge trading values, but what it should really come down to is you trading something you have for something you want.

 

Using the phrase "make me an offer" is an immediate red flag and one of the worst ones.

I've seen people list a couple of examples of what they are looking for and end that bit with offers (e.g. FT: King Henry ISO: CW Fifteen, BA Huna, offers). That seems to go a little better as you've provided some idea of what tier of quality you're looking for while leaving it a little open.

 

90% of BA trades are auctions any more so its pretty much irrelevant.

 

Personally I think it would be a hell of a lot easier if people were required to state in their posts 1:1, 5:1 etc. every time. Good way to avoid auctions, eliminate unnecessary/vague posts, etc.

 

I agree with this. When I posted my first thread "ISO: Westvleteren 12 FT: Black Note, BB4D" I had people tell me through BMs that a 4 pack of either would be fair for 1 bottle of Westy 12 then try to do the trade. They deliberately tried to take advantage of me and my lack of trading knowledge. However, because my inbox blew up, I was able to determine a fair value for both sides.

Do I consider my post an auction? No. Do I think that taking the time to read through several BMs to determine a fair value was a good thing to do as a new trader? Yes. Am I asking myself easy questions to make myself sound smart? Yes.

I do think that, when trading, both sides should have a fair deal. Just because somebody makes an offer, that doesn't mean I have to take it. If I receive an extremely lopsided offer, I should not be forced to take it to avoid my post being labeled as an auction.

I don't really know if this applies to this thread at all, but I just needed to say it.

 

It's just hard when you can't pin down precisely what people will want in exchange. This problem is particularly acute when "trading up": let's say I want a BCBS Rare and have 10 bottles of varying value to offer. It's not sensible to write out every permutation I'd be willing to offer. Rather, you start a dialogue and go from there, and that's as much as can reasonably be expected in a lot of cases.

(Another example is when you're unsure of what you need to offer but also don't want to screwed, a la what Michigan discussed above -- it's not a guarantee that someone chimes in with a "fair" offer, at least not in due time, and so you might get "exploited.")

 

I agree with you. On that note, I've always offered exactly what I want to give and exactly what I want in return.

But you'll have the folks that say, "If you offer a Dave, and complete BAVDL vertical and you get a natural ice and you're happy, then it's a fair trade."

 

Those are some good points. But I still would like to see a higher rate of more specific trade proposals as I do think some purposely throw out a long list with the intention of choosing whomever asks for the least in return. I do think some ISO:FT's are intentionally vague, though that of course can't easily be proved.

 

When I look at the list, if there's a very generic ISO, or any ISO for that matter where the FT is a cellar link, I don't bother. Most of them are shots-in-the-dark types of ISOs, hoping that they'll get lucky.

I wish more people would read the Trading Pet Peeves thread. Lots of valuable nuggets in there if you're wondering what people look for when scanning over/reading the ISO:FT forum.

 

the difference between an openended trade with one person and with indefinitely many people is that one person doesn't compete with her/himself.

 

To be fair....the average person puts up a trade with a few things they're looking to let go of, and a few things they're looking to acquire in exchange for those. Seeing as how different people are going to have different portions of what you're looking for...and different folks are going to be interested in different elements of what you have to trade, it's beyond obvious that you're going to get pitched a number of offers. Of course you're going to take the one that's most appealing.

Fact is, posting an ISO/FT offering "x" for "y" greatly decreases your chances of getting something done, whereas the aforementioned method opens the door for you to possibly get multiple trades initiated.

The fact of the matter is...you can call it an auction if you want, but it takes two people, or more, to make it so. I guess I don't understand people's aversion to negotiating. Obviously trades get done on this site, and ones where both parties are happy. Furthermore, very few trades end the way they start. You add on both sides, tinker around...it's an evolution. It's the barter system at its finest. To me, it's one of the more enjoyable aspects of trading. You have x to offer, looking for y. When the trade's done....You've trading x, d, g, and m for n through v. Big deal. If you're not havin' fun with the whole trading thing, you need to find another form of recreation.

 

Thanks for the insight Hayden, you can keep the negotiations errrr.....auctions to the ten people left in your defunct Facebook group.

Otherwise you must know that you contribute next to nothing to this community.

Wait...what's that?....I just heard a siren for the dog putting out the imaginary fire that allegedly burned your friends' house down. Never going to live that one down bro.

 

First, as soon as we start trading on your website we can use your rules. In the meantime, the brothers have said 'No open-ended offers / auctions; example: "Make me an offer."'. I believe they have a vested interest in not making BA ISO:FT the second coming of ebay, or a place where newbies put up vague trades and pit BAs against each other.

Second, most people have plenty of luck with legit ISO, or legit FT/ISO threads. Before traders like you made the ISO/FT forum an armpit most folks used to have clear threads and would work out with the first responder that was able to satisfy their ISO. This doesn't kill negotiation or expansion at all. I rarely if ever do 1:1 trades. It does require a thought out post, and it does give visibility to the community on if the trader is dead set on "winning".

Your trade requests can't possibly be so complicated. 'Seeing as how different people are going to have different portions of what you're looking for...and different folks are going to be interested in different elements of what you have to trade'. If they are really that tough what is the big deal with splitting our your posts, or with saying you really are only looking for someone that has A+B+C+D+E to trade?

 

I'm guilty of a vague trade too. I was offering up MC for canned IPA's that interested me for the beach, I thought it would open up availability. I was getting offers for all kind of stuff in bottles etc. Invariably it got to where there were two offers and I wanted the best offer like most would, both were completely different brews from different parts of the country. I BM'd as such and was accused of auctioning which I really wasn't, but I could see where it would/could appear that way. To that individual I wasn't auctioning just indecisive on different stuff I wanted to try and were these were new brews to me.

 

Smoke a peace pipe. I never suggested anyone do anything the way I say. Was simply stating how I went about some things. An auction is saying "FT: 'x' ISO: Make me an offer" Giving a list of shit that you'd be willing to receive in exchange for what you have to offer, is not an auction. Period. And before someone like ME make the forum an armpit? You can shove it. My ISO/FT's are simple. I put out what I've got to offer, and I express what I'm looking for in exchange. And this "winning" stuff...is bullshit. Every time two people trade with one another...they both win. They both get something for something they're willing to give up. No one's holding guns to one another's head.

And I didn't say my trade requests were complicated. But if I put up an ISO for Peche 'n Brett, Bourbon County Coffee, Kopi Speedway and Rueze...and say I have things like Hunahpu's, Tired Hands growlers and special releases, and Hoarders Society releases that I'm willing to part with....what's wrong with two people talking with one another based off that information, and hammering out a deal?

The idea of splitting my posts? Oh...I don't know... Sparing the trading community from having to sift to scroll through half a page of ISO's before arriving upon one that isn't mine?

 

I could give a shit what I contribute to the "community." lol I have more than enough people with whom I have outstanding relationships with. Those that I don't...I don't feel I'm missing anything even a little. Trust me, I lose zero sleep at night that the likes of you isn't my friend.

And if you want to keep accusing me of making shit up, you should have a clue what the fuck you're talking about. Which in this instance you clearly do not. And live it down? lol Again...what's to live down? Someone like you for whom I have no respect whatsoever, giving me grief about something they know nothing about? Ooooooo. The horror!

 

And I can see where your dumb ass would think that 80+ is close to errr 10.