Wooden Hell

Yeah, there's no question that lambics are way more robust. I'd imagine that if it holds up for decades, it holds up well shorter term in warmer temps. But then again, I'd typically assume that the kinds of people who regularly deal in rare lambics probably have a decent cellar/fridge setup anyway.

 

Yeah, I'd hope so too. But you never know!

 

I'm not a big whale guy, but I store my beer in the oven.

 

Hey claaark, your inbox is full but I'd like to see a picture of your setup if you've got it. I'm itching for a storage upgrade. Sorry in the event you've posted this somewhere else - my stalker skills aren't up to snuff today.

 

There's no debate; it's garbage. Was at a tasting late last year where a WH was opened. Was properly cellared the entire time by the person who bought the bottle from Flossmoor Station. It was dull and heavily oxidized. I only finished my pour out of respect to the guy who brought it. Srsly, don't bother.

This. There are a lot of recurring whale trade 'bargaining chip' bottles that seem to only get upcycled, given how few are likely still in circulation versus how often trade threads pop up. I'd add BA Papiers, Partridge, Roze & Blauw, V004 and all pre-B4 Beatification batches.

 

Although I keep hearing of these magical bottles that are devoid of oxidation, the last few bottles I've tried have tasted like barrel aged cardboard.

 

Homers gonna home.

Sheol > Wooden Hell

 

Omg i love barrel aged cardboard batch 1

 

I had some (I think) last year and it still tasted great to me *shrug*. I'd say it's more bottle variation than they're all shit now.

Full disclosure: I have a WH which I may or may not offload at some point.

 

Someone just offered up one for a BAVDL straight up

 

do you have a link for this stu?

 

Here's the first post I could find: http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/1st-hand-experience-with-60-f-basement.22787/#post-275641

You can ask him for more details.

 

Oxidation doesnt worry me as much as the possibility of lots of other undesirable chemical reactions happening at higher temps. Especially with a product like lambic - alive with various organic compounds, yeast and bacteria.

Edit: nvm I see the link

 

Let me know when/if you want to unload this liquid cardboard and I will meet you in person for a trade. I'll give you no less than 5 things from your wants list and an awkward bearded man hug as an extra.

*extra is not serious...or is it?

 

Can confirm hug was one of the best extras I've ever received, and we didn't even trade...

 

There's a nice graph that's basically "those undesirable reactions" vs temp and IIRC the temps that are really damaging are higher than room temp. Of course that was done with AALs in mind, so who knows how applicable it is to real beer. I'll try and find it when I have time.

 

Unfiltered beer has to be a lot different. But if we are just talking a high temp as 68 then that probably doesn't matter TOO much. I would think that the beer will age slightly quicker than something at 55. There is scientific proof from wine experiments showing the aging process (certain chemical reactions) speeding up because of higher temps. Whether or not you taste the difference is based on lots of things like influenced perception, palate sensitivity, sobriety etc.

 

Well, it would be extremely shocking if the aging process didn't speed up at higher temps, since that's the norm for chemical reactions. I think what's more concerning is the ability for the higher temps to allow higher-energy reactions that didn't happen previously (which I believe is what you were alluding to earlier). I'll look to see if I can find that graph now.

 

Wow, scientific proof from wine experiments, you say? Move over, Arrhenius and HTOL testing. Real science is here!

Wouldn't they happen at lower temperatures, just with less probability? I think the difference in aging is whether one of those reactions exceeds a threshold that the human palate can taste.

Example: baking a pizza at 425 F vs 450 F causes different reactions to dominate in the same time frame, resulting in a different final product, even though the reactions are the same.

Source: I watched a lot of Billy Nye

 

I believe what I'm thinking of comes from the paper described in here: http://beersensoryscience.wordpress.com/2010/11/15/chemistry-of-beer-aging/ It's probably in the paper itself, which is available for free somewhere, I think.