How does Portland do it?

Discussion in 'Northwest' started by cavedave, Jul 8, 2013.

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  1. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Hey all don't know if this is frowned upon, or not, but here goes.

    Just thought I would ask for general perceptions, more than anything, of how Portland has become such a fine beer loving area, and how it manages to support so many fine beer brewers?

    In full disclosure it is because I am thinking of throwing my hat into that ring, offered a marvelous opportunity for success at brewing. Or marvelous failure, haven't decided which.

    Would love to think my area is about to become a beer destination, but could it also become a brewery overpopulated area? Folks around here are clueless, this is new to us.

    Were there signs a long time ago in Portland? And is Portland a victim of success now that so many breweries open? Or has the rising tide raised all ships? What have you noticed about it?
     
  2. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Although Portland posts impressive per-capita brewery numbers, keep in mind that most of the breweries are brewpubs. To the average Portland consumer, they may as well just be a pub. The density of drinking establishments is really no higher than in any other beer-loving city.

    For the breweries that do bottle and/or distribute kegs outside the city, it really doesn't matter where they are, does it? If you are sitting in Seattle drinking an Upright saison, couldn't it have just as easily come from San Diego or Chicago?
     
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  3. DimensionX

    DimensionX Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2010 Oregon

    I think Portland has reached a kind of critical mass, there are so many breweries and many of those are good ones that people from all over have started traveling here from all over with the single goal of drinking beer in mind. Good beer. This is obviously a good thing for the beer industry and the city as a whole.

    There aren't that many places in the world that a person can walk, ride, bus, or drive to so many high quality establishments in such a small area. Personally I think there is room for more but the level of competition is high and some breweries that have been open since the last boom are having tough times right now.
     
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  4. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I can't speak for Portland, but in terms of beer culture I tend to think of Seattle as kind of a "Portland light." More spread out and fewer breweries per capita, but similar in some other important ways. I've lived here for 20+ years and for at least that long, "beer" has only ever meant what's referred to as "craft" beer in most other places. I think an important facet of beer's success here is the whole "alternative" lifestyle or whatever you want to call it. People identify with smaller local producers and will go out of their way to support them. I don't think this can be replicated from the top down, but where it exists it provides fertile ground for craft breweries, wineries, cheese makers, butcher shops, restaurants, music, art, etc. I'd expect similar developments in places like Vermont, Madison, Austin, and other areas that value independent thinking and appreciate quality, creativity and craftsmanship, even if it costs a little more. I'd say if your area has a lot in common with these kinds of places and a relatively healthy economy, then you have a pretty good chance of succeeding with a brewery (as long as the beer is also good).
     
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  5. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    I have seen the Portland tour itinerary and it is an impressive group of 100 establishments, some not so close to the city as others, some chains, but for a city that size it is astounding. Brewpubs is the model that works best in such an environment?
    Thanks, just the perspective I was hoping to find.

    Hope others chime in with thoughts, it will be greatly appreciated.
     
  6. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Don't think of brewpubs as a brewery that has a pub, think of them as a pub that brews their own beer. They don't compete with other breweries so much as they compete with all drinking establishments.
     
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  7. Sarlacc83

    Sarlacc83 Initiate (0) Mar 2, 2008 Oregon

    When it comes to the brewpubs and restaurants, word of mouth in a neighborhood is really important because word spreads fast. The city is very linked-in. Tangentially related to this, Portland takes the idea of districts fairly 'seriously', so that each place has its own flavor. Brewpubs and the like can then work to fit in to these general concepts to fulfill their function and gain positive word of mouth. This is one of the reasons the city can continue to support new breweries - even though our dead spots are measured on such a small scale relatively, locals still turn out to support the brewery that's in their neighborhood because there's not much that's closer. (Breakside Brewing on Dekum is a great example of this and HUB is another. The northeast side of PDX was severely underserved, and there was nothing in the Powell area when Hopworks opened up four or five years ago.)

    Also, Oregon's general desire for craft beer can't be understated. You're talking 15% or more of the population that drinks craft as their primary beer. You'll see that reflected in grocery stores. You can go into Safeway for your BMC, but you'll also have just as much, if not more, room devoted to PNW craft options, and when it comes to grocery stores like New Seasons or Whole Foods, it's all craft all the time since that fits the philosophies of those places.

    Short version: There's a lot of pride in drink local and drink artisan.
     
  8. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'll second what draheim said, and add a couple thoughts. Craft beer sales are 30% of the market in PDX, and 25% in SEA. Even if you walk into the most redneck farmer/logger/fisherman/true dive (not hipsterish faux dives)/construction worker bar, there will be a couple of craft options even if it's only Mac n Jacks or Fat Tire. If you see that type of attitude growing in your area, that can only help you. A lot will depend on whether you're looking to go the production brewery route, or the brewpub route. If you've got a solid local base to start with, plus even a modest amount of visitor traffic, brewpub may be the way to go to start, then grow your outside sales. Good luck either way, I look forward to trying your brews!
     
  9. sharpski

    sharpski Grand Pooh-Bah (3,100) Oct 11, 2010 Oregon
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I agree with draheim's assessment for Seattle, and have noticed the same thing in Bend. "Local" carries a lot of weight, and people attach value to keeping money in their community. With so many choices, success hinges on people actively seeking out the local guys over out-of-city or out-of-state options.
     
  10. RedMedicine

    RedMedicine Initiate (0) Jun 3, 2005 Oregon

    Well put. And along with that comes a lot of pride from brewpubs and beer-centric establishments to not fuck over their customers financially. There are many places here where you get the genuine feeling that the owners/managers/servers are dedicated to keeping prices as low as possible. For you non-transplants, that may just be status quo, however coming from New England and Philly, it continually blows my mind.
     
  11. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    So in other areas it's considered a sound long-term business practice to fuck over your customer base? How's that working out for them?
     
  12. maltmaster420

    maltmaster420 Initiate (0) Aug 17, 2005 Oregon

    That 15% is for packaged beer. To me, the more impressive number is that 47% of all draft beer consumed in the state was brewed here. That kind of saturation goes way, way beyond beer geeks. Drinking "craft beer" has become so ingrained in the culture here that it's like asking someone about music. You don't ask, "Do you listen to music?" You simply assume that everyone listens to something, and instead ask, "What kind of music do you enjoy?"
     
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  13. RedMedicine

    RedMedicine Initiate (0) Jun 3, 2005 Oregon

    That may be overstating it, however the general feeling I get in many other city is that the number one, often clear as day priority is making the biggest buck. Maybe I am naive, but the feeling I get at many places here is that the number one priority is respecting the consumer through reasonable and affordable pricing and outstanding customer service. In turn, you end up with a loyal consumer base, that drinks more beer, more often. A win-win.
     
  14. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I don't know if that kind of business ethic is unique to the PNW; no idea. But it does remind me of a quote from Glengarry Glen Ross: "Don't sell a guy one car. Sell him five cars over fifteen years."

    This makes me think of breweries like Logsdon, putting out world-class beers for $9 or $10 a 750. Or Fremont's $9 six-packs of delicious, always-fresh beer. Or even Hair of the Dog's "no-carb discounts." Examples abound, but providing value for the customer's dollar absolutely builds and retains brand loyalty like nothing else.
     
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  15. flexabull

    flexabull Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2006 California

    Don't think this has been mentioned, but I think part of the reason why Portland is so successful is the state in general is very pro beer. (See Bend Oregon too...)
     
  16. squaremile

    squaremile Initiate (0) Aug 25, 2007 Oregon

    The main difference is that craft beer is just part of the culture in Portland. It's not even a thing that gets debated. Every single place in town has craft taps, even the shitty taverns at least have Mirror Pond on. I have only been here 5 years but part of the national craft revolution emerged here in the 80s, and that needs to be credited with what is happening today, along with access to great local farms.

    In terms of how the city supports all of the breweries and pubs, its similar to how New York supports all of the bodegas. Everyone has their neighborhood spot and they support it. I have been shocked to see how well the new spots have been doing, and I may be in the minority here, but I think the city can support a decent number more depending on their neighborhood.
     
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  17. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    This is the one thing mentioned I can relate to NY. We are extremely pro beer lately, in fact NY and Oregon have the best growler laws, and the state has been increasingly pro active.

    As far as a craft culture we have a long way to go. We also don't have the identity of thinking we are a craft state. The consume local movement is also hard to judge around here, and you all identify it, one way or another, as a key factor.

    This is really helping me to see what factors need to be examined better. I thank you so much. The more we discuss this the better I think I will understand.

    Oh, and we decided not to do a brewpub, but to distribute kegs, and then bottles and cans, mainly due to the initial cost, and also the fear of the brewing operation being tied to the success of food service. Hopefully our beer, should we be lucky enough to open and send it out, will survive on its own merits.
     
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  18. oregonskibum

    oregonskibum Initiate (0) Mar 14, 2009 Oregon

    Dave - have you ever watched the IFC show Portlandia? Granted - it's an exaggerated view of what makes Portland Portland. But especially the first season hit on some of the concepts discussed here. Things like eating local (would you like to see his papers?) and supporting the little guy really are part of the culture.

    Having lived on the east coast (Boston) for a couple years, I think the speed of life here plays a role as well. I think it's more acceptable to spend an afternoon hanging on the patio with friends. What's so important that I can't enjoy another round? Maybe it was my schedule back then, but it seemed like everyone had something to be doing. After work/school drinks were scheduled and you carved out a small time period to meet up for a drink or two, then onto the next thing. We're much more a 'go with the flow' kind of city - at least compared to what I remember Boston.

    Also, we're a very active community. Running, biking, hiking, backpacking, skiing, surfing, boating, etc., etc. Unless there's a religious reason, I don't know anyone who doesn't incorporate a stop at a pub/bar into their day when enjoying an outdoor activity. I laugh at the MGD64 commercials, because in Portland, we don't drink light beer so we can recreate harder - we recreate harder so we can drink more good craft beer. The Visit Bend organization has a commercial out mocking MGD64's commercial just because of this reason.

    Historically, Portland has also benefitted from its proximity to the Willamette Valley and a strong agricultural based economy. First wineries, then 30 some years ago breweries, created jobs and revenue for the state. As these business grew, they hired lobbyist and were able to pass laws favorable to fostering further growth in the industry. That's led to a generation of Oregonians who find it perfectly normal to brew beer at home or drink homebrew. That's driven further experimentation by larger breweries who now have a consumer base not fearful of branching out and trying something new just for the sake of trying it. I don't know this, but it wouldn't surprise me if Portland has one of the highest number of homebrew shops per capita as well. There's nothing there you can replicate, but another reason/evidence that beer has become engrained in our culture.

    A comment on not opening a brewpub. One of the things we're seeing more and more of locally is breweries opening a tasting room with a nice large parking lot. Then having food trucks come in for lunch and dinner hours. We have a booming food cart industry. And the brewery saves dealing with a kitchen and the licensing and costs associated with one. That's the way I would go if opening a brewery.
     
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  19. sharpski

    sharpski Grand Pooh-Bah (3,100) Oct 11, 2010 Oregon
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    If you're eschewing a brewpub for a production brewery, take a look at Georgetown Brewing in Seattle. Their model may not be unique, but their system of pre-filled growlers with a bottle exchange makes for a very efficient operation requiring fewer staff in the tasting room for the volume they do. It's not a place to hang out and drink a few pints, so it may not be what you're envisioning, but may be worth a look. I also second the idea of forgoing a kitchen for food trucks or allowing delivery from nearby restaurants, allowing you to focus on the beer, plus you build goodwill with other local businesses.
     
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  20. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    We have 3 breweries in my town (Population +/- 80,000), 2 are brewpubs with significant outside sales ( Boundary Bay was/is the largest brewpub by volume in the country and sells a lot outside the brewery, and Chuckanut sells relatively little locally, but has massive outside sales) and Kulshan is a production brewery with a "tasting room"( Going off-topic for a moment: all these breweries with tasting rooms are really running pubs. Except for food, they're no different than any other bar. Winery tasting room generally don't let you sit there all day drinking glass after glass. You taste a few samples, buy some bottles and you're out. I think we need a new term for these brewery tasting rooms that are open10-12 hours a day.), and they're doing great. The owner realizes that running a restaurant is a different business than running a brewery, and he's a brewer. Not sure what the food truck scene is like in your area, but you should definitely have a tap room. You'll make the most money from your beer buy selling it at market price in your location.
     
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