Why can't most American breweries master Belgian styles?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Orca, Jul 24, 2013.

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  1. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'll start off by admitting that this is of course a loaded question that assumes American breweries can't master Belgian styles. And before the discussion gets off the ground, I want to state a couple of obvious big disclaimers: American breweries have made some outstanding wild ales and saisons of various stripes, as well as a handful of other Belgian styles. For the sake of this thread though, I'm talking mostly about tripels, quads, BSDAs etc., and even there we have a few notable exceptions: Unibroue and Ommegang come immediately to mind (even though Unibroue is Canadian, but close enough). Boulevard makes a great tripel and Allagash is generally very good too. There may also very well be some good East Coast breweries that I don't have access to.

    But overall, I've probably had more disappointing Belgian-style beers from American breweries than notable ones. What I'd love to see is more world-class American-made tripels, quads, etc. I don't know a ton about brewing, but these seem like they would be pretty straightforward styles to make and, unlike IPAs, they're also pretty durable. The only real variable that I can think of would be the yeast. Looking for opinions on why we don't see more great Belgian-style beers from American breweries. Or have they just ceded that part of the market to Belgian imports? Or am I wrong? Cheers!
     
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  2. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Most aren't trying.
     
  3. matedog

    matedog Crusader (457) Jan 25, 2010 California

    I've thought about this as well. We've pretty much redefined a number of English styles - Barleywine, IPA, imperial stouts, but I've yet to have an American dubbel as good as Westmalle or quad as good as Rochefort 10. Come to think of it, there aren't a lot of American takes on German styles that can match. I'm less well versed on German styles, but I remember something about that banana-y esters from the German yeast that make their hefes so distinct from ours.
     
  4. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    They are too busy making styles more people want?
     
  5. RichD

    RichD Pooh-Bah (2,318) Mar 18, 2012 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    To me, they seem to be harder for these breweries to keep the quality up for quads. Note that a lot of Belgian breweries only make Dubbels, tripels and quads. For American breweries, most make more than just those styles, (Wits, strongs, pales.) It also could be the whole "we can't top Rochefort and Westy so why even try?" I doubt that, but you never know.
     
  6. jmw

    jmw Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2009 North Carolina

    Only 5 posts so far including the OP. One of those claims that Americans have redefined major historical varieties (ok, styles) and another claims Canada.
    What is wrong with you people?
     
  7. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I can only speak for myself, but I'd take a bigger selection of Belgian pales, tripels, and quads at the expense of paring down the 300 variations on the American IPA that I have to choose from locally, many of which are largely indistinguishable from each other.
     
  8. DemmBonZ

    DemmBonZ Initiate (0) Aug 2, 2012 Wisconsin

    New Glarus Anniversary Strong Ale is amazing. Reminds me of a lot of things I had in Belgium.
     
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  9. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    It'll come around. In the last year or so, two breweries have opened in our area that focus on Belgian styles.

    http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/28798

    http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/30831
     
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  10. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    I love Belgian styles, don't get me wrong. I am just saying brewers have to cater to their customers, if they were clamoring for them, they'd be made and perfected.
     
  11. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well now that I evidently can't get my annual share of Cuvée Van De Keizer Blauw, I'll be eager to see Selkirk Abbey bottles showing up at my neighborhood Whole Foods. I ain't driving to Ellensburg though. :wink:
     
  12. matedog

    matedog Crusader (457) Jan 25, 2010 California

    I agree with the original posters about IPAs ubiquity and the desire for more Belgian offerings. I think you are right that the demand is there, but I also think IPAs are a lot more easy and cheap to brew than quads (note: I'm not a brewer, so correct me if I'm way off base).
     
  13. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    Sound Brewery ain't too shabby either, although I'd argue they do Anglo-American a lot better than their Belgian styles.
     
  14. fatsnowman22

    fatsnowman22 Zealot (554) Feb 2, 2011 Nevada

    Its kinda of like asking "Why does my grandmothers schnitzel or spaghetti taste better than mine?" They have been doing that specific thing repeatedly for a long time. Experience, knowledge and repetition are extremely undervalued.
     
  15. libbey

    libbey Initiate (0) May 18, 2008 British Indian Ocean Territory

    Decades and sometimes centuries perfecting their beers?

    edit* what fatsnowman said
     
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  16. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I see this as kind of a chicken-and-egg deal. Breweries make what they think consumers want; i.e., what they think will sell. Consumers (and especially casual consumers) buy what breweries put on the shelves, taps, and restaurant beer lists. If half of the choices available are IPAs, pale ales etc. then that's what the consumer will come to expect and buy. Of course this is no different from any other area of the free market, but it always seems to lead to kind of a rut where the most interesting things are going on along the margins.

    Most of the people I've exposed to Belgian styles have been blown away; they literally had no idea about these kinds of beers even though they've walked past them in the grocery store a thousand times as they reached for their standard 12-pack of Pyramid or Redhook.
     
  17. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Is that also why American breweries have mastered the American IPA in the last 10-15 years? (being a little cheeky here, but you get my point)
     
  18. beveritt

    beveritt Pooh-Bah (1,565) Apr 6, 2006 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    What do you mean by they can't master them? They can't make something that tastes exactly the same? Or they cant' make something that tastes good in that general style.

    I think so many of the interpretations of classic styles by the craft brew scene are just that, interpretations. They may not be exactly true to the original style, but they also may not be trying to be. Hence we have DIPA/IIPA, American Barley Wine and the like. American (typically although not exclusively) variations on a theme.

    I love the classic Belgian brewers but also like many of the American Belgian style beers. I don't think there is anything mystic about the originals; in fact most of them seem to have moved forward with brewing science pretty readily and use the latest gadgets and innovations in brewing, to include such seemingly sacrilegious stuff as hop additive.

    In general, I think beer and beer styles are very fluid. Two brews can be very different and still be the same style.
     
  19. beveritt

    beveritt Pooh-Bah (1,565) Apr 6, 2006 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Except that many of the Belgian breweries are not that old and most have changed or tweaked their recipes and processes fairly recently (if we are talking in terms of decades or centuries).
     
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  20. BeerIndustry22111

    BeerIndustry22111 Initiate (0) Apr 16, 2013 Minnesota

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