Why can't most American breweries master Belgian styles?

I dunno, you try and elbow your way in on territory that is unknown to you and try to master it in a few short years and see how you come out of it. Americans are trying, its just that you shoulder monkeys have been making it hard on an entire country to get around to mastering what a country the size of the state of Ohio has had many years, or in fact, centuries to figure out. Especially when a lot of the ones on this side of the pond are already and have been operating at capacity with those DIPAs, and IPA's and barrel aged doo dads ya'll seem to like so much. Patience.

 

Plenty of European Breweries have mastered American styles. Just to name 2: Struise and Kernel.

 

When you try to be a jack of all trades, it is hard to really master any if them. There are a few exceptions though.

 

While this statement was made in jest, I know you are a brewer, and that you know it likely is some characteristics of the water (besides for the atoms making up Hydrogen Dioxide) that contribute to the character of the beer. Possibly it even is the key factor that cannot be duplicated. And yes, I know water chemistry supposedly can create anyone's water anywhere. If this is true to the degree necessary however, the question remains why hasn't it?

Let us look at the original question in a different way and perhaps we will see just how true terroir may be in the equation. Why is is it that other countries can't produce a fine cigar as well as Cuba? In this case the variables are much less confusing. Same companies, same equipment, same length of growing season, same workers, same seeds, same skills. Only one variable, the soil in Cuba. And believe me the Nicaraguans, Hondurans, Dominicans have been trying their balls off to make one as fine, as it would make them instantly rich via the American marketplace.

Like water, soil analysis has been a human capability for a long time. Then why have all attempts to grow Cuban quality tobacco failed in other terroirs? Could it be we don't know some important characteristics? Not only of native soil, but also of native water?

When it comes to Belgian styles there are many variables confusing the issue, so OP's question seems a puzzler. I am willing to bet, however, that were the same Belgian brewers using the same ingredients and same equipment to try and make the same beer they make in Belgium here in this country using water chemistry technology available to brewers, that they too would be unable to reproduce it.

 

Just to name two sounds like you agree with me

 

Not enough steak tare tare, waffles, and frites for pairing purposes

 

Malt Bomb..

 

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/24678/66491

That is all.

 

Couldn't agree more. I suspect other variables are at work that may not have been identified via scientific means. We can appropriately call them terroir.

 

And if you look at the tasting conditions they are mostly all done with the knowledge of where the beer was brewed and what price was paid for it. Both factors which are typically eliminated in blind tastings because they have been clearly shown to influence the judgment of even experienced tasters.

 

For those that haven't, please refer to "Brew Like a Monk" by Stan Hieronymus.

http://www.amazon.com/Brew-Like-Mon...d=1374756861&sr=8-1&keywords=brew+like+a+monk

This book is an in-depth investigation into the history and methods involved in brewing traditional Belgian styles, both by trappist and secular breweries. Here's a snippet:

http://byo.com/stories/item/636-fermenting-belgian-style-beers

There are many answers to this question, but one thing that is clear is that brewing an IPA and brewing a Belgian beer is, in many ways, a completely different process. This starts with the yeast - which many Belgian breweries have taken years to investigate, select, propagate and store. There is a comment in this book that while you can purchase commercially available strains of Belgian yeast harvested from these breweries, the actual yeast used by the breweries themselves has changed over time. Therefore, in many ways, it is impossible to make a beer exactly like a classic Belgian brewery. The yeast just won't be the same.

Other things. A large proportion of sugar needs to go into a Belgian beer ("adjuncts!" says the American craft brewer, "oh no!") Fermentation temperatures need to rise to ridiculously high levels - if they were allowed to do this in an IPA, it would undoubtedly be flawed. American breweries mostly try to make "clean" beers - Belgians are by design quite "dirty" in terms of fermentation.

I agree with the OP though. American brewers should be trying to investigate and master this style, and then maybe even play with it a bit in the name of innovation. If you're a brewer and your completely ignoring Belgium's rich brewing history and tradition, you're not doing your job well enough.

 

I bought a growler of Pizza Boy's Bumblephuq BSDA two weekends ago. I hope to crack it open tomorrow evening and I'll let you know how they are doing!

 

You know I'd buy into this argument were it not for "The Judgment of Paris."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine)

Where highly experienced judges were both both shocked and amazed by the quality of some US wines, and apparently unable to recognize a wine by its terroir.

If anything what the improved quality of wines from many places (e.g., Australia, the US) demonstrates is that it is the skill and experience of the winemaker that is paramount (for puposes of keeping this related to beer, you can also read "brewermaster."). My region of PA is clearly not "wine country" and we have at least one Winery within 50 miles from where I sit that regularly places well in international competitions.

BTW: I personally happen to think some of the factors learned about winemaking and what affects quality do apply here since there are similar things which affect both. The nature of the ingredients, growing conditions, skills of the producer, the containers, and the fact that processes can impact outcomes.

 

There is lots of interesting discussion on this thread. I am not personally convinced that the ‘issue’ is the differences of water as some have opined.

Mattbk made an interesting statement of: “American brewers should be trying to investigate and master this style.” I would expand American to North American to include Canadian breweries. The aspect of “master the style” is somewhat ambiguous. Does “master” have to necessarily mean ‘replicate’ a beer like Westmalle Tripel or Rochefort 10? I would suggest that it is perfectly fine for a North American brewery to brew their own take on a Belgian Ale style. I think that Unibroue, Allagash, Ommegang, etc. make very tasty Belgian Ales. I enjoy drinking Allagash Three Philosophers; I personally do not need to ‘compare’ it to Rochefort 10.

A brewpub close to me made a Tripel using a specialty Wyeast yeast strain from Schelde. That Tripel was OUTSTANDING! It was their take on what a Tripel should be.

One Belgian style that I think North American breweries make very, very well is Saisons. I have yet to drink a North American Saison that tastes exactly like Saison Dupont but so what, they are excellent beers nonetheless.

Cheers!

 

While its true that many variables are at work here, all of the discussioin here hinges on the assumption embedded in the title, i.e., that American breweries have not mastered Belgian styles. I would question that assumption and the data upon which it is based. First of all we have to agree that we don't have to expect all US breweries to have mastered Belgian styles since not all Belgian breweries have mastered Belgian styles either. So we can deal with a subset in both cases. The fact that the percentage of those who have tried in the US is relatively small is just fine since so is the subset of those in Belgium who have tried. I would expect that we can agree that some have failed in both places, and the real question is are there some who succeed in the US when stacked up against those who have succeeded in Belgium. (And note that we don't want to use only the crème de la crème of those who have succeeded in Belgium because that is stacking the deck unfairly since the quesiton deals with style mastery, not who brews the very best one in the world.)

However, the proper data to assess the answer to this question, and some of the others raised in this thread, are simply not available because the data have not been gathered yet. For example, the vast majority of tastings of any beer in the BA database are done with the taster having knowledge of the country of origin of the beer, the relative price of the beer, and, often, common expectations about and/or rarity of the beer. All of these factors or bits of knowledge are known to bias ratings and are part of the reasons why blind tastings are put in place to answer questions such as "have some (number undefined) US brewers mastered Belgian styles." To do this properly we need 4 types of beers--US brewed that may have mastered and US brewed that may not have mastered, Belgian brewed that may have mastered and Belgian brewed that may not have mastered. Then we need multiple experienced judges who have a well developed appreciation for what constitutes the best qualities of the particular style.

Until blind tasting data exist most everything else is speculations.

 

Must be nice to live past 200 years old!

 

Are you Belgian? I've only been to Belgium (Hainaut) twice, and that was 20 years ago, but my impression was that the beers were phenomenal and brewing deeply embedded in local culture.

 

Its a great question and I ask that same question allot of every brewer I talk to. I think it comes down to what sells here the best. many of these newer breweries are just trying to make a profit. So you make what sells. I home brew allot now and I try to make beer like the monks do, so far its ok beer but its just no where near their calibre.

I think its a question of each market and each brewer to answer. I also think many here do not want to go out and drink 8% and higher beer. In Belgium you walk to the little pub in Bruges (the little beer) and others, you can stagger home after a night of tripels, quads etc.... here most have to drive.

I also think the profit on these is lower here, no idea its a probrewer.com question I think.....

My dream is a Belgium cafe/pub, many say its not viable idea here. No matter I do not have the money to do it anyway........

 

An IPA has to cost more than most Belgian beers - esp if we're talking a Wit, Blond or Dubbel. The ABV is the same or lower and there are far less hops. A single purchase of yeast can also last several batches of beer from repitching, while IPAs require (a lot) of fresh hops for each new batch.

In terms of sales - yes, perhaps Belgians can't stack up to American IPAs - in America, anyway.

This idea also made me think of fermenter design. Many traditional Belgian breweries use (or used) smaller and flatter fermenters. Most modern American breweries use taller, conical fermenters. The greater head pressure from the conicals prevents the fantastic esters from being generated by the yeast during fermentation. I know that several Belgian breweries have also switched to conical fermenters, but not without a lot of trial and error to match the flavor.

 

Well I said its a probrewer question, meaning I did not know....I only have a 15 gallon pot...

plus IPA's are just not my thing and I would never ever brew one.