Open Fermented Belgian Pale

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Gunslinger711, Jul 13, 2013.

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  1. Gunslinger711

    Gunslinger711 Zealot (663) Apr 16, 2010 Indiana

    This is only 3rd brew and I tried a lot of new things I believe I pulled of successfully so I'm preemptively proud of that. My first two brews I added or subtracted a little bit out of recipes, for the 3rd I wanted to keep the ingredients the same but change the process somehow.

    Recipe is Brewer's Best Belgian Pale Ale (extract with steeping grains).

    First 2 batches I missed my steep temps, this time I killed the flame a little bit above the steep temp, whirlpooled down a few degrees, added my steeping grains and covered the pot for 30 minutes. Correct steep temp achieved. Last batch I burnt my DME, this batch added the DME in with the flame still off. I had a few near boil overs in the previous batch, used a spray bottle this brew (this is GENIUS btw, inappropriate hugs to whoever invented that).

    The rest of the boil, hop additions, etc went well. Now onto fermentation. But first, another new technique (to me) making a starter. 2 days previous I made a 1L starter for my 3522 Ardennes yeast and shook that puppy every waking hour up to a few hours before brew time.

    Now really onto the fermentation. I wanted to try something different, after reading up a bit about it I chose to open ferment half my beer. What container do I use? After mulling this over and consulting with the wife, she suggests a turkey roasting pan as the widest, shallowest vessel we have that will hold at least 2.5 gallons.

    2.5 Gallons go in the roaster, whisk furiously to aerate, add half the starter. 2.5 gallons go in a bucket, shake to aerate, pitch the other half of the starter.

    24 hours later, big krausen on the Roaster beer, I skim it. @ 48 hours , krausen is back, a little smaller, I skim. @ 72 hours almost a little krausen has come back. FG was supposed to be 1.010, ended up at 1.003.Effects of open fermentation? Pitched too much yeast? Not sure. Transferred it to a bucket and let it sit next to it's brother for a week to clear up.

    I wanted to something special for the bottling as well so I made a 1L "priming starter" with some sour brett beer dregs and another 1L "priming starter" with a bit of kombucha I grow and a bit sourdough mix I have laying around. Shook that up for 2 days before bottling.

    Primed like normal transferred both of those guys to smaller containers, let them settle, then used eye droppers to dose about 6 beers (3 open, 3 closed fermented) for each solution (6 for brett, 6 for sourdough kombucha).

    Now, we wait. Another month for the "normal" closed and open fermented beers, 6-12 months for the "sour primed" beers.

    Credits: The Mad Fermentationist website specifically for notes about sour beer fermentation and generally for being awesome. Brewing TV for their open fermentation video. My wife who likes beer experiments FOR SCIENCE!
     
    #1 Gunslinger711, Jul 13, 2013
  2. Gunslinger711

    Gunslinger711 Zealot (663) Apr 16, 2010 Indiana

    24 Hours
    [​IMG]

    48 Hours
    [​IMG]

    72 Hours
    [​IMG]
     
    #2 Gunslinger711, Jul 13, 2013
  3. Gunslinger711

    Gunslinger711 Zealot (663) Apr 16, 2010 Indiana

    Little brother (after the transfer) & big brother
    [​IMG]

    Leftovers, corn chowder anyone?
    [​IMG]

    Sour priming starters
    [​IMG]
     
    #3 Gunslinger711, Jul 13, 2013
  4. Gunslinger711

    Gunslinger711 Zealot (663) Apr 16, 2010 Indiana

    My update: 3 weeks in bottles and 1 week in the fridge. Both need a little more time to carb up. The closed fermented batch tastes pretty close to a Belgian Pale Ale with an odd mineral after taste (which is odd to me because I used distilled water) while the Open Fermented batch tasted sour and...greasy.

    What could be causing these odd tastes?
     
    #4 Gunslinger711, Aug 5, 2013
  5. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    #5 JohnSnowNW, Aug 5, 2013
  6. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    What did you use to clean and sanitize everything with?
    What temperatures did you ferment?
    Is the a kitty litter container you fermented in?
     
    #6 Naugled, Aug 5, 2013
  7. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I thought the same thing.
    I think it's a bold move for you, the op, to try open fermentation after only brewing 3 batches. Kudos, but if you're making changes to your brewing process with "regular" beers, why are you jumping into the deep end so soon? Why not get your technique down first before getting crazy? There is so much to learn and experiment with as far as grain bills and hop schedules go, plus the joy of playing with fermentation in a controlled setting, why take it into the uncontrolled arena of brewing?
     
    #7 SFACRKnight, Aug 5, 2013
  8. od_sf

    od_sf Initiate (0) Nov 2, 2010 California

    Humm... let's see.... fermenting in a turkey roasting pan? Adding a kombucha culture at bottling? Nah, these are standard brewing methods that could not possibly cause any odd flavors.

    Sorry, don't know.
     
    #8 od_sf, Aug 6, 2013
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  9. Gunslinger711

    Gunslinger711 Zealot (663) Apr 16, 2010 Indiana

    @ od_sf Well that was rude. But the internet and being classless go hand in hand.

    To answer your question anyways, the turkey roasting pan was soaked in starsan for a while and I wasn't tasting a bottle with kombucha in it, I was tasting an open fermented bottle.
     
    #9 Gunslinger711, Aug 7, 2013
  10. Gunslinger711

    Gunslinger711 Zealot (663) Apr 16, 2010 Indiana

    @naugled and @SFACRKnight Everything that touched the beer after the boil was soaked in starsan first. The smaller bucket you see is a food safe frosting bucket you can get from Kroger, Wal-mart bakeries, etc that was hot water rinsed several times then soaked with starsan.
     
    #10 Gunslinger711, Aug 7, 2013
  11. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    You probably got some nasty shit in it from the air obviously.

    Can't really help ya... You added a bunch of odd stuff to the beer, so there's literally 4 handfuls of areas that could have gone wrong.
     
    #11 FATC1TY, Aug 7, 2013
  12. Gunslinger711

    Gunslinger711 Zealot (663) Apr 16, 2010 Indiana

    @johnsnowNW That is a handy link, I'll have to keep that around.
     
    #12 Gunslinger711, Aug 7, 2013
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  13. Gunslinger711

    Gunslinger711 Zealot (663) Apr 16, 2010 Indiana

    @FATC1TY any of the odd addition bottles are still in the bottles, the bottles I'm tasting are the plain open fermented and closed fermented batches.
     
    #13 Gunslinger711, Aug 7, 2013
  14. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah


    Okay, well, it's probably because it's infected from the open fermentation. Take a beer, put it in a bowl and set it out like you did. LMK what it looks like in a week. It's a cesspool if you can't semi control the environment.
     
    #14 FATC1TY, Aug 7, 2013
  15. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Regarding Open Fermentation Off Flavors:
    You most likely have an infected beer. Greasy can be oxidation of fatty acids or a result of an infection (Pedio can make your beer feel slimy or greasy, Diacetyl resulting from an infection can also give you slickness).

    Skimming your krausen off was a bad idea. Ale yeast is top fermenting, and continually removing the entire krausen may have substantially reduced 1) your pitch rate (amount of yeast fermenting beer) and 2) the amount of CO2 being released by the yeast, both of which are working to protect your beer from infection.


    Regarding Closed Fermentation Off Flavors:
    Where did you pick up your distilled water? Mineral off flavors can come from store bought water; I actually once had to chuck 30 gallons of beer I brewed on the same day because the store bought water (Arrowhead "Distilled Water") had a cholramine/plastic flavor to it. The mineral after taste could have also come from your beer finishing too dry and being over hopped; what was your FG (1.003 is low; but not sure if thats open or closed)? I've had a saison come out way to bitter because it finished at 0.991 and had around 45 IBU, which resulted in a bitter, slightly mineral heavy beer. Also could be your yeast strain; no experience with Belgian Ardennes, so someone else might be able to help you here.
     
    #15 barfdiggs, Aug 7, 2013
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  16. od_sf

    od_sf Initiate (0) Nov 2, 2010 California


    Come on now, it was neither rude nor classless. It was a bit of humor. Relax. If you're gonna ferment beer in a freaking turkey roasting pan on your third brewing attempt and post about it on a brewing forum you should expect some friendly crap for it. :rolling_eyes:
     
    #16 od_sf, Aug 7, 2013
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  17. sergeantstogie

    sergeantstogie Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2010 Washington

    OP,

    You are going to have a lot of frustration trying to get too fancy too soon. Make some simple beers. Learn your equipment and develop a routine. Learn to be a clean freak when it comes to anything that touches the beer post boil. If you haven't already, read Howtobrew.com

    Then, try one new thing at a time. For example, make a simple beer a couple times, then try a batch of the same recipe in an open fermenter. I can't see your pictures so forgive me if you did this, but an "open ferment" doesnt necessarily mean you have to recreate a coolship and ferment in a shallow container with absolutely no cover. When I've done it I simply left the lid of my bucket loose. The way you did it was an ideal situation to inoculate it with whatever native bugs are in your area. I learned these things not by being a super smart science nerd (no offense barfdiggs) but because losing a batch of beer is simply not affordable for me.

    And od_sf is right. Don't get too sore about a little ribbing. Not everything can be a serious discussion or it gets a little stuffy 'round here.
     
    #17 sergeantstogie, Aug 7, 2013
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  18. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    well, he did use a kitty litter bucket to ferment in.
    so i assume he has a cat or cats.

    mmmmm....litter dust....
     
    #18 atomeyes, Aug 7, 2013
  19. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    No no no, you got it all wrong. OP said it was a frosting bucket. I want to know who the hell needs to buy frosting in a bucket though.
     
    #19 SFACRKnight, Aug 8, 2013
  20. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    someone who likes their frosting?
    a baker?
    someone who open ferments in a turkey pan and wonders why the beer tastes like turkey?
    not sure.
     
    #20 atomeyes, Aug 8, 2013
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