Crystal - Why the hate?

I'm not sure about all the hate, but I am on board with it.

 

I do not hate crystal malt, but I do not use it either.

As far as Pale ales, IPAs and the like I just prefer them as dry as possible.

For a RIS or something I usually boil down first runnings. Not the same as crystal malt but whatever. I also use Munich malt, again not the same as crystal but whatever.

I also try to buy in bulk so I have ingredients on hand and can brew on demand. Having recipes with crystal malt just does not fit my stockpile style or my brewing style for that matter.

 

Folks that like dry beers seem to hate on crystal. But you can add a small amount of crystal to darken the color and add a little body without making beers malt bombs, and without any sort of burnt or roast edge you'd get by adding darker malts. I use crystal in a lot of my beers, most times sparingly, others times not so much...

 

One time I read a post by someone about how they like to achieve color using primarily base malts instead of "coloring" malts like crystal. I was intrigued by the concept as a new home brewer, thinking that crystal was a staple in almost all recipes (judging by what I had seen in beginner home brewing books and posted recipes). My next recipe, I set out to make an amber ale of sorts and left out crystal, letting dark Munich malt bring the color. I was pleasantly surprised by the flavor too, and since then have challenged myself to limit my use of crystal malts and achieve flavor and color from other malts. I can't really pin point a reason why other than thinking it's a little more satisfying to brew that way - kind of silly, I guess.

But I am by no means a crystal malt hater - I do use it quite a bit, despite my ramblings above. As long as it makes good beer, whatever...I kind of compare it to guitar players who hate on power chords; as long as it sounds good...who cares?

 

Crystal malt isn't viewed as cheating, it's just considered something that gets in the way of pale hop forward beers by many people. IMO, it doesn't improve a pale hoppy beer and anything it does contribute you can get in other ways. The crystal malt and hop combo tends to result in a more generic hop character, more juicy fruit and bubblegum. In high levels it can not only get really sweet but also plasticy. I've found that if you just use a base malt with more character (i.e. not generic 2row) then you need less speciality grains to get your malt complexity.

 

I am not a fan of most American Crystal malts but absolutely love what English Crystal malts do for my beers. I like to be light handed with it in APAs or IPAs (just enough for a little complexity and some color), but in dark beers or low abv beers they can work wonders. I feel the English Crystal malts provide a better flavor (at least to my tastes) - I believe I read that one of the main differences is that they are derived from 2-Row malts while American Crystal malts come from 6-Row, whether that is the difference maker or not I can not tell you.

Edit: Also, Golden Naked Oats is the best Crystal malt ever invented. That is all.

 

I am in the hater camp when it comes to certain beers, mainly hoppy ones. I don't like the flavors of crystal malt as it starts to oxidize in the background of a fading hop bomb. Too much sherry and raisin/plum notes competing with the hops. I bought a 6 pack of Dale's Pale past its prime and barely made it through 1 beer (after dryhopping it in a french press), SN Pale Ale is the same way, even Oakshire's Watershed which is a good beer when fresh. I too, prefer my hoppy beers to be bone dry and get my color from dark wheat and dark munich malts, maybe a touch of roast barley for a red which helps to give it a dry finish.

But for my Oud Bruin, Flander's Red, Stout and Imperial Stout, Scotch Ale, Barley Wine, Dopplebock, Munich Dunkel, etc, I do use crystal malts in combinations (typically a mix of MFB CaraMunich 40L and 120L in different proportions). If the beer is supposed to have a burnt sugar or dark fruit character then I use them, just not in my hoppy beers, pale lagers, or pale Belgians.

EDIT: I also agree with OddNotion, English (or Belgian/French) Crystal malts are much better than American.

 

I have noticed that the majority of anti-crystal malt comments have been in the context of the beer styles of APA and IPA. There seems to be a vocal bunch who advocates that crystal malt be used sparingly or not at all for these beer styles. Somebody coined the term “crystal police” for these folks. I personally use 1 lb. of Briess crystal malt (20L or 40L) in my batches of American style IPA beers. I think that the aspects of crystal malt play a useful role in these beers. Needless to say but others have differing opinions on this matter.

I am also a big fan of crystal malts like Caravienne, Caramunich, Special B, etc. in a number of beer styles. For instance, I think that a judicious amount of Caravienne can add a bit of nuttiness to some beer styles. I also really like the dark fruit flavors that Special B lends.

As has been discussed there are malt flavors that can be obtained by using darker base malts (e.g., Munich Malt). From my perspective, crystal malts lend flavors which are unique from base malts. Which flavors are preferred are a matter of personal preference. You can also utilize darker base malts and crystal malts together to provide more complexity.

In my opinion, crystal malts should be used judiciously (something like 10% or less of the overall grain bill) but there is no reason for them not to be used if they are consistent for a given beer style.

My 2 cents.

Cheers!

 

I find that many commercial examples of "old school" IPAs feature a lot of crystal malt in them. These IPAs are usually fairly bitter, grapefruit, with a strong malt flavor, and a lot more mouthfeel. The color of these beers tend towards the amber/copper end of the spectrum. And, when those hops fade, you're left with a very malty beer. I think some of these IPAs gave crystal malt a bad name as far as use in IPAs goes.

IPAs that are a bit lighter in color, leaning towards orange and gold, tend to be a bit drier and feature less of this malt dimension. I am guessing (?) that these beers also include crystal, but just a lot less of it. I think this is where the trend has been over the last several years.

 

You can make a good beer with crystal malt or without it. Good recipes are balanced, and the sweetness and body that crystal malt contributes can play a role in that balance. However, a beer that overuses crystal malt is more egregiously flawed than a beer that uses no crystal at all.

Beers with too much crystal lack drinkability - they tend to be cloyingly sweet and heavy. In contrast, the progenitors of the modern beer styles did not have any crystal malt, and several modern styles still often lack crystal malt or use it very sparingly: pale lagers and Belgian ales, for example. Lack of crystal is never a major flaw. I will never find a beer undrinkable solely because it lacks crystal malt, but an excess of crystal always is a flaw.

Rookie homebrewers (and sadly, even some craftbrewers) have a tendancy to overuse it. Extract and steeping grain brewers have a limited palette of ingredients at their disposal and often rookies overuse crystal in an attempt to augment the prepared extract, as a way of personalizing the recipe. If you do use a lot of it, you need to work harder to get your yeast to attenuate the beer by optimizing fermentability of the wort, fermentation rates, and pitching rates. Again, inexperienced brewers may be at a disadvantage here: if you are doing extract and steeping, the fermentability of the wort is not really in your control, if you don't know your yeast well, you do not know what the best pitching rates and fermentation temps are.

 

These are the most intelligent observations on the topic of crystal I have ever read. Well done.

 

How would you describe the flavors that Golden Naked Oats provide?

Cheers!

 

Do you feel this way about all styles, or just styles that are supposed to emphasize hops, yeast, or something very refreshing and drinkable? For instance, I feel that crystal absolutely belongs, at some level, in American stouts and brown ales; imperialized versions of these beers demand even more. Stouts often get dinged on this site for being "watery"; the use of crystal absolutely helps in this regard (unless you are making, for example, a lower ABV version of a dry Irish stout. Which is a style I personally dislike because of the dryness and acrid finish.)

 

“I feel that crystal absolutely belongs, at some level, in American stouts and brown ales..”

Permit me to tell a Brown Ale story that relates to my prior statement of: “You can also utilize darker base malts and crystal malts together to provide more complexity.”

A little over a year ago I brewed my first Brown Ale. I thought to myself: why not kick this bee up a notch!?! I was not interested in making an Imperial Brown Ale but just a ‘regular’ Brown Ale that had some complexity to it. My ‘strategy’ was a combination of crystal malts and some ‘distinctive’ darker base malts. My decision was:

· Crystal Malts: 1/4 lb. each of Dark Crystal, Chocolate and Carared

· Darker base malts: 1 lb. of Weyermann Smoked Malt & 1 lb. of Briess Rye Malt

The resulting beer was awesome!

Cheers!

 

I think crystal can balance the roasted malt flavors of these styles, so more can be used here. I once made brown ale with a considerable amount of brown malt and toasted malt and no crystal and found that too acrid. I've never made a classic dry Irish stout (70% pale, 20% flaked barley, 10% roasted, and zero crystal) but I don't hate the commercial examples I've had. I've definitely had commercial and homebrewed examples of these styles with too much crystal. From my early homebrews, I found 2# s in a 5 gallon batch of porter to be too much. More recently, I followed the Janet's Brown Ale recipe, which uses > 2#s, although some is carapils (which I think adds only minimal sweetness?) and uses lots of hop bittering - I didn't find it unbalanced. As always, YMMV.

 

Slightly sweet berry note. Very nice actually. I first used some GNO's, just a handful in a Saison, and it was awesome. Used them again in a pale, and it was great. Wonderful head retention, color, and some body without being overly sweet.

 

As for crystal.. I use it, and depends on what I brew. In most normal IPA's I'll have roughly none, to 1 pound, depending on what I've got going on.

A simple quaffable pale, shouldn't need any crystal. It makes beers finish too high in most cases. Not all, but most. A high FG IPA just isn't as refreshing, and I feel ages worse for it. Heavier as time goes when the crystal is over used.

Now, in my porter, I'll use half a pound or 3/4 of a pound along with some really roasty malts. My RIS has a pound and a half of crystal in it, and needs it with my grain bill.

So... no real hate for crystal. It has it's needs and places in certain recipes. Just like black patent doesn't need to be used in high percentages in an IPA, but it's acceptable in a huge roasty stout.

 

I don't hate crystal at all. I am perfectly fine with adding it to anything you wish to add body, color, flavor, etc. Which type of crystal you choose depends on the type of beer, obviously. Choose your crystals by what you want to add to a beer, have a reason to add it, and have an idea of what that crystal will do for your beer.

There are many delicious commercial beers that use a lot of crystal malt. Stone beers come to mind. Some people gasp at how much crystal some of their beers contain, especially their IPA (which I friggin' LOVE). I say if it works don't fix it.

That all being said, I don't add crystal to all my beers (tho at first I did). You can get tons of body, color and flavor from straight up base malts without any crystal. Brew some smash beers with Munich malt and you'll see what I mean.

[possible hyperbole starts here]

Honestly, for a beginner, I'd probably suggest some crystal malt in many common types of beers good for beginners to make. They're going to have high expectations, and they're gonna want body like Miss October. Crystal malt can really help if it's body you want.

[/hyperbole]

Better than to just say crystal is "bad" or "good," you should have a purpose for every ingredient you put in your beer. This is true even if that reason is "experimental." Learning from your beers is a great way to enhance your enjoyment of drinking them. If you're wondering about crystal, try making a beer with plenty in there. Or making one with none in there. Or making the same APA twice, once with crystal, once without.

I'm not a member of the crystal police tho. I don't gasp when someone lists crystal malt in their recipe just because it's there.

 

i love BA homebrewing forum cause there is still so much to learn, and it's usually right here.
thanks.
that's all.