An Oktoberfestbier 'style' question...

Originally the festival was about drinking the beer left over from spring brewing. Marzen(March). When the festivities for Ludwig's wedding were started he had beers commissioned for the event. These are your festbiers. They were fresh, lighter crisper beers. The original festivities were about consuming all the old beer.(You could not brew in the summer because of the inability to control fermentation temp and high risk of fire.) Paulaner has the 2 best examples. (polarizing)

 

Are you sure it wasn't the other way around? That they just started serving lighter colored beer there because they're more popular?

 

Was thinking the same thing. Just picked up two oktoberfestbier style beers and was immediately surprised with the golden color.

 

I'm finally coming around to this style after nearly writing it off.. It was Ayinger's Oktober Fest-Marzen that opened the door back up for me. And like the OP said, the German versions are more similar to Helles than our American interpretations of the Marzen style, which works for me.

 

I feel like this link about Oktoberfest beer might help you a bit? Your question is slightly hard to understand.

Beers served at the actual Oktoberfest have to be above 6% ABV and brewed in Munich, so only a few breweries are allowed to be served. The Bavarians would brew Maerzens, cellar them, then serve them at Oktoberfest. They were dark, full-bodied, and had a higher alcohol content so that they could make it until late September when they were served.

 

Do NOT write off the style until you have had a number of German offerings, and Ayinger is about the best one you can get here. The vast majority of American-made versions just don't cut it, are clumsily made, and many are just not pleasant to drink (there are a few good ones, though- and I hear great things about Shiner's, believe it or not).

We're also just starting to come around on the paler Weisn'n style over here- within the past 4-5 years or so they have started to be imported. Maybe soon there will be domestic versions of those. How good they will be remains to be seen.

 

http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Oktoberfestbier.html

http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/oktoberfest-wiesn-and-märzen.110817/

There's a fair amount of incorrect information in this thread. First and foremost, I'd like to reference the first link, which has some nice historical information in it. And to answer most of the OP's questions, check out the thread I linked in the German forum.

From what I understood in that thread, the German versions should not be "caramely" or overly sweet (think this year's Sam Adams Octoberfest which I find cloyingly sweet). Also, the beers served in the tents do NOT have to be over 6% abv, they all range from 5.8% to 6%.

Historically, you have it sort of backwards. It started out amber in color and slowly progressed to the pale lager we see in the tents today. When/to what degree it slowly changed from an amber colored Festbier to a pale Festbier is up for debate, as there's currently no concrete answer.

Neither beer is moderate to high in the hops department. The beer served in the tents today is more akin to an "imperial Helles" (although please don't call it that) and shouldn't be hoppy. It's not a pils. This beer is the same strength in alcohol as it's amber cousin, and is still a malty beer. It's only lighter in color not in strength.

Also, "Wies'n" is not a style. It's simply a marketing term recently coined by Paulaner. Any beer served in the tents during Oktoberfest is a "Festbier". "Wies'n" is a shortened name for the grounds in which the festival is held (full name being Theresienwiese). Marzen is a style on it's own, although in Munich you'll be hard pressed to find an amber colored version similar to what we receive in the States. The majority of it is imported here to the US.

If anyone from the thread I linked above would like to correct/add/comment on anything I have posted, I certainly encourage it!

Normally I'd say cheers, but in this instance, prost is more appropriate.

Prost!

 

That's fine- but then how would one differentiate between the two 'types', pale and amber/copper? Is there a more appropriate terminology?

 

First, dieBlume, thanks for supplying the link. I'd not been aware of that site. I learned a lot about the history behind it that I can use to impress my friends here in Germany.

Nope, you did a damn good, bang up job summarizing 2 weeks of discussion. Go get 'em tiger.

 

I think Victory's Festbier comes closest to a German style as compared to other US versions. Sadly it seems this style had lost momentum with the rise of baby shit pumpkin beer.

 

I liked the German beer institute description until the end when they called Festbier a Helles. Anyone who has consumed 4 or more Litres of Festbier surely knows it is no Helles in terms of Stammwürzen! My personal favorite is Augustinerbrau.

 

Definitely hit up that thread in the Germany forum. There's a ton of great stuff in there.

 

I agree with most of what AlcahueteJ posted.

A few points to provide some additional discussion:

I personally am not a fan of Sam Adams Octoberfest since it is too sweet for my palate. It is likely that German brewed Marzen beers are not as sweet (or caramelly)as the Sam Adams version (I have not drunk every German brewed Marzen beers so I really don’t know). Sam Adams Octoberfest has won multiple medals at the GABF so it seems that this beer is consistent with the Brewers Association style guidelines for a German style Marzen.

As to the Wiesn vs. Festbier discussion, a pale colored Marzen is termed a Festbier via the style guidelines for the European Beer Star Awards beer competition. There may be breweries beyond Paulaner that refer to a pale Marzen as a Wiesn; I am unsure on that topic.

The beers that are served at the Oktoberfest event are similar to a Helles but of higher gravity (more alcohol). It seems that some German breweries use the adjectives of “Export” and “Spezial” to denote beers that they make with some ‘extra’ alcohol to it. Maybe a good description of a Wiesn/Festbier is that it is an Export Helles?

Cheers!

 

Let's all please stop using this site for reference -- its reliability has been debunked so many times that its reputation should be well known and the site owners ought to just shut it down.

 

I think I'm at the moment drinking the perfect Märzen/Oktoberfestbier.

Here's what I wrote, and notice the quotes from Camba Bavaria's website:

Now to Camba Bavaria's Märzen. [After drinking their] Dunkel, which had a lot of qualities of a Märzen, I thought I'd just jump into their Märzen to compare them.

On the website, they say the beer was fermented in open vats and lagered in flat tanks. It's also available only September to December, and they say:

Which I translate as:

The Wies‘n-Märzen and especially the change in this type of beer over the decades are a role model for our Camba Märzen. A fine balance of light, dark and caramel malt give this beer the historically sturdy copper color and malty, caramel-like flavor. The wholesomeness of our Märzens is shaped by a high fermentation temperature, a pleasant sparkling and a clearly perceptible bitterness - true to the modern version of Oktoberfest beer.​

​

First, notice they use Wies‘n-Märzen and second, that this is supposed to kind of a mix of older and modern versions of this style.

So... as you can see in the pic, it's quite dark, very deep amber with more orange tints.

The aroma is exactly the same as the Dunkel - München malt - yet this has hints of Noble hops lingering behind the malt smell.

The flavor isn't as strongly tilted roasted malts as the Dunkel. In the front you get a tartness that is verges on containing bitterness but really doesn't hit you over the head. The middle is full bore caramel malts from Münchner malts mixed with a Pils malt dryness, thus restraining and not letting the sweetness overtake the senses. In the back, as to be expected in a Märzen, it's all malt but also a hint of bitterness. It's a very round sweetness, not cloying, not sugary, rather just like you're sucking on a roasted caramel bon bon. At 5.6%, this clocks in exactly within the range for this style.

The mouthfeel is really thick, heavy but not vinous nor burdensome, instead, it's a nice blanket of Gemütlichkeit sliding around the mouth, thick enough that you feel the heft of a sublime serious while letting it slide around the mouth. You can literally feel a respect for and investment in quality ingredients. Finally, the aftertaste is even more sturdy malts but then you feel that tartness as a slight kick, almost forcing your arm to reach for the glass again. However, what I like best about it and makes me like it more is the mouthfeel. This beats a lot of Märzens I've had before simply on this point. "Sturdy" really is the best adjective here, like it's a long lost friend to depend on: not too flashy but hits all the right notes to relax you from all of life's stresses. Really, that's what this beer feels like. It's simply a balanced taste of malts and some tartness that verges on bitterness. This is a real October beer, for the times when the cool fall winds need a buffer from a thick blanket of beer to keep you warm.

For a Märzen, this is a top 10, maybe top 5. The flavor is near the best of them, heavily weighted to caramel but not overly sweet, being balanced by a small bit of tartness.

 

100% correct

 

I've always likes the Hacker-Pschorr version. Always seemed a a bit more dry and roasty.

 

Victory makes a great weisn style called Zeltbiet

 

My favorite imports are Hacker-Pschorr and Ayinger. Favorite domestic are Great Lakes, Brooklyn, & Capital Brewing.

Edit: Plus, New Glarus Staghorn