Saisons and hangovers... any correlation?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by JamesQuaff, Sep 11, 2013.

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  1. JamesQuaff

    JamesQuaff Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2010 California

    So I regularly consume what many civilians may consider a large amount of beer. Any and all styles, I love them all, I drink them all, and I admittedly don't do moderation very well when it comes to fermented grain beverages. I drink at absolute minimum 3 beers every day. Stout for breakfast? Why not? Every once in awhile on the weekends I get downright shitfaced. But it's a rare, rare morning indeed when I have a hangover. Just doesn't happen very often at all, no matter how tanked I get. I drink a big glass of water, hit the hay, and generally wake up reasonably fresh, ready for the next dry-hopped Bukowskian adventure.

    However, after two recent trips to my local microbrewery, I've greeted the dawn with some of the absolute worst hangovers of my entire 30 year drinking career. Only the Great MD 20/20 Fiasco of 1992 could begin to rival the intensity of these two particular incidents. Headaches so astoundingly awful I felt like Tony Dogs when Joe Pesci put his head in a vise. Took half the day to even get back to 50%. Same exact thing happened to my buddy who joined me on one of these excursions and crashed on the couch. We were both miserable and dumfounded in the morning. But man, that saison was tasty!

    Yesterday I was drinking Houblon Chouffe at the bar of my local taphouse, chatting with another patron about our favorite drams and our mutual propensity for overindulgence. He said he rarely gets hangovers either, "but over the weekend I had one that was just... ugh, so bad". So I asked him if by chance he'd visited our local microbrewery on the preceeding day. He said that he had. I then asked if he had their saison. "Three glasses, that stuff was awesome!". And thus we found the culprit. Their saison done did it to us.

    I'm admittedly a bit of a saison neophyte, or at least new to the mass consumption thereof. Previously I've only had small-ish samples here and there, mostly imported, usually in flights or sharing a pricey bottle amongst friends, not enough oz.-wise to really count as 'drinking' them. These were the first times I've ever had multiple glasses of saison to the dome. There was nothing at all 'off' about this beer in either flavor or aroma, at least nothing that I was able to detect. On the contrary, it was delightful. But I will never forget the hangovers it induced.

    So my question is this - does saison yeast in general create some kind of unique hangover-inducing byproduct in the finished beer? Are those lovely peppery notes due to some kind of mutant wholesale chemical transformation somewhere in the wort? Do I need to plan to be out of commission the next day if I intend to indulge in saisons in the future? Or could there possibly have been another explanation for this phenomenon?
     
    #1 JamesQuaff, Sep 11, 2013
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  2. mcaulifww

    mcaulifww Initiate (0) Aug 18, 2011 Virginia

    TL;DR
     
    #2 mcaulifww, Sep 11, 2013
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  3. JDice20

    JDice20 Zealot (639) Aug 14, 2013 Louisiana

    Would rather discuss the MD 20/20 fiasco personally....
     
    #3 JDice20, Sep 11, 2013
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  4. Beerontwowheels

    Beerontwowheels Initiate (0) Nov 22, 2009 Maryland

    After 30 years of abuse, your liver finally had enough. Your liver demands a raise or you will pay the price each morning. Your choice.
     
    #4 Beerontwowheels, Sep 11, 2013
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  5. jivex5k

    jivex5k Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2011 Florida

    I have no scientific evidence to back this up, but I believe Belgian styles in general lead to a better chance of a hangover.
    I had a Saison Rue last night, no hangover today though.
    But...when we celebrated Belgian Independence Day...my god that was rough.
    Had Rochfort 10, Gulden Draak 9000, Karmeliet (spelling?), The Kaiser (that kaiser van blue or whever, blau..idk), westmalle, and some others I can't remember.
    My god....worst hangover of my life.
    I think it's the residual sugars in the beer that do it.
     
    #5 jivex5k, Sep 11, 2013
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  6. Kerrie

    Kerrie Initiate (0) Aug 24, 2012 Michigan

    I personally haven't noticed a difference when I drink them. However, I don't recall ever having more than 2 saisons in a night. I usually switch up styles. I wouldn't mind drinking saisons all night just to test it out, though. You know, for science.
     
    #6 Kerrie, Sep 11, 2013
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  7. JDice20

    JDice20 Zealot (639) Aug 14, 2013 Louisiana

    Never had more than a 750 in one night... hmm couldnt tell ya opie.

    maybe you are gettin old.
     
    #7 JDice20, Sep 11, 2013
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  8. fernz18

    fernz18 Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2009 California

    Sours and farts, any correlation?
     
    #8 fernz18, Sep 11, 2013
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  9. hopsputin

    hopsputin Grand Pooh-Bah (4,403) Apr 1, 2012 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    not for me personally.

    last Saturday I had a bottle of Fantome and felt fine Sunday. It was throughout the afternoon though.

    just keep drinking water is what I do
     
    #9 hopsputin, Sep 11, 2013
  10. thatinvisibo

    thatinvisibo Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2005 California

    Yes, if I'm correct, there is usually "alcohol" in saisons. I believe there's occasionally a correlation between that and hangovers.
     
    #10 thatinvisibo, Sep 11, 2013
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  11. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Saisons typically ferment at high temps. High fermentation temps can encourage the production of fusel alcohols, which could contribute to hangover symptoms.
     
    #11 herrburgess, Sep 11, 2013
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  12. Jmitchell3

    Jmitchell3 Initiate (0) Apr 2, 2013 Arizona

    That sounds scientific enough for me.
     
    #12 Jmitchell3, Sep 11, 2013
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  13. thatinvisibo

    thatinvisibo Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2005 California

    I thought that was why brewery's started saisons out at low temp and then raised it through out fermentation?

    Also, for a more serious post: it's possible it's saisons, it's possible it's just THAT saison, and its also possible that there was something else in the cards that night that gave you the gnarly hangover. The best way to find out would be to simply have a saison-only night, where everything else for the day has been completely normal conditions. Of course, this easy to say for the guy who doesn't have to drink with the purpose of seeing how bad his hangover will be from it...
     
    #13 thatinvisibo, Sep 11, 2013
  14. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    That was my thought as well: if the brewery is doing it right, there shouldn't be fusel alcohol production regardless of the temps.
     
    #14 herrburgess, Sep 11, 2013
  15. fredmugs

    fredmugs Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2012 Indiana

    Does Budwieser ferment at high temps? That shit used to give me headaches.
     
    #15 fredmugs, Sep 11, 2013
  16. JamesQuaff

    JamesQuaff Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2010 California

    I was under the impression that fusel alcohols would produce some discernable solvent-like off notes in flavor and/or aroma. There was nothing present in either aspect of this beer to indicate such. Is it possible for fusel alcohols to be present without significantly marring the flavor/aroma of a beer?

    This particular brewery does a bangup job on pretty much every style they turn out. I'm not sure if this was their first production crack at a saison or not, but I've been very pleased with all of their Belgian-style offerings to date. Their chardonnay barrel aged BPA was off the chain. And no death head in the morning.

    I'm 99.99% sure it wasn't just ethanol overconsumption that did it to me. Yesterday afternoon I had multiple full pours of Houblon Chouffe, Curieaux, Wookie Jack, Almanac Gose, two full pints of Berryessa Footpath APA, came home and had two bottles of Flipside and 1.5 fingers of Van Winkle bourbon. Peppered throughout with glasses of water, as usual. Went to bed pretty toasty. Woke up this morning fresh as a daisy.
     
    #16 JamesQuaff, Sep 11, 2013
  17. afrokaze

    afrokaze Pooh-Bah (1,962) Jun 12, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Those coincidences don't really have any conclusive link to the beer though.
     
    #17 afrokaze, Sep 11, 2013
  18. dieBlume

    dieBlume Initiate (0) Mar 18, 2013 Virginia

    This and this may help answer your question. And this might help you cure your hangover.
     
    #18 dieBlume, Sep 11, 2013
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  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    “I was under the impression that fusel alcohols would produce some discernable solvent-like off notes in flavor and/or aroma.” A beer with ‘excess’ higher alcohols (fusel oils) is sometimes described as having a “hot” or “harsh” aspect to it. A variable would be the level (amount) of higher alcohols (and maybe the type(s) of higher alcohols?). So, a beer could have ‘excess’ higher alcohols (fusel oils) and not necessarily have a discernible solvent flavor.

    While making a Saison beer the other variable is the yeast strain used. Some yeast strains (e.g., the Dupont yeast strain) can be fermented at very warm temperatures and not generate ‘excess’ higher alcohols (fusel oils).

    It is possible the brewery is suffering from a ‘double whammy’ of fermenting too warm/hot and using a Saison yeast strain which generates too much higher alcohols (fusel oils). I would speak to the brewery (brewer) and provide feedback on this beer.

    Cheers!

    P.S. I also would like to hear about the Great MD 20/20 Fiasco of 1992. My college intramural softball team was the Mad Dogs and we ha T-shirts with MD 20/20 on them.
     
    #19 JackHorzempa, Sep 11, 2013
  20. BrettHead

    BrettHead Initiate (0) Sep 18, 2010 Nebraska

    </thread>
     
    #20 BrettHead, Sep 11, 2013
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