Vote: Should we create a non-beer Homebrewing forum?

I really like this idea and appreciate the willingness to compromise on this issue. As an example of how such a forum may be beneficial, I was thoroughly enjoying the thread that was started a couple days ago regarding cider brewing, although I realize that under the current rules, such a thread was not entirely acceptable. Still, it seems there are a number of individuals with knowledge in other areas of fermentation that may serve as tremendous educational resources for all who follow the homebrewing forums.

 

I think the title non-beer fermentation works well for a sub-forum. My favorite homebrewing magazine, "Zymurgy" has articles from time to time on brewing Sake and Mead but still remain strongly focused on beer homebrewing. I don't see a problem.

 

Well a subculture for cider, mead, and sake would practically name itself. I am sure there are lots of people on the homebrewing subforum who make these already. In fact, I've had a cider from a BA homebrewer that was delicious. Right now they just go elsewhere to discuss it out load, or allude to "that which shall not be mentioned." Seems rather silly.

Whether or not another sub-forum of a main forum that has fifty sub-forums will generate more revenue seems like a fairly moot point if you're forcing people that are already here, generating content, to go elsewhere to discuss a rather small and innocuous sub-category of homebrewing.

If you don't want to allow reviewing of cider, mead, and sake, just politely say "we are keeping the reviews of commercially purchased alcoholic beverages limited to beer only." Put up a sticky post and link to it. The vast majority of people who would make a suggestion that BA should allow reviews of cider, mead, sake aren't doing so just to intentionally piss you and Jason off, and they probably have no idea of this "can of worms" that you describe above.

The quality of modern beer is high, and the variety large, and this allows the utility of the reviews to be high. I actually do use BA for this, in that if I'm thinking of buying a new beer, I will frequently check the ratings first (especially if it's expensive). I don't know if there's enough quality commercial sake, mead or cider to warrant such an addition on that basis, but I kind of doubt it.

I have seen it before, with other forums, that as they grow, the overall quality of the experience diminishes, and the content suffers. So for this reason, I think you would be wise to keep the scope of the forums limited. If you broaden the scope too much, you'll just attract a disproportionate number of cranks, loudmouths, trolls, and conspiracy theorists. The JREF forum is a perfect example of a forum that's too big, and whose content is diluted by excessive rudeness on the side of the skeptics, and excessive trolling on the side of the cranks. Similarly, the twoplustwo.com forums have simply gotten too big, driving away many of the quality posters from back in the day, leaving lots of modern day wanna be phil helmuth loudmouths to fill in the void. Keeping BA reasonably small by limiting the scope of discussions is an absolute requirement if you want the quality of discussions to remain high.

All that being said, adding a sub-forum to the homebrewing subculture will not cause the world to suddenly stop turning. It would however, keep the cider and mead brewers from being forced to look elsewhere for conversations on something they already do, which has a lot of overlap with something they already discuss here. It's not likely to be a heavily trafficked forum, but the content is likely to be of high quality, given the posters you already have on this forum.

It's a HORRIBLE idea to ever allow talk of politics, religion, economics, sports, gambling, auto-repair, whether the earth is round or flat, conspiracy theories, 9/11, the situation in the middle east, today's news, abortion, the answers to yesterday's linear algebra quiz*... etc etc on BA, HORRIBLE. I don't think you're actually considering such things, but if you are, please, place that idea in the circular filing cabinet right now.

*btw, if anyone has answers to the linear algebra quiz from yesterday, beer mail me

 

I appreciate you addressing this, Todd.

 

I'd say go for it.. Like you said, you allow the ads because there's a benefit to the wallet for those involved. Why stop it at just collecting and allow others to come join in the conversation and to perhaps branch out.

With that though.. and the discussion of cider, sake, mead, graff, and hell, I would assume kombucha would leak in.

What about wine? Wine is probably just as large, but larger than cider in terms of fermentation outside of beer.. Thats bound to creep in, no? Which begs for yet more moderation to creep in.

Bottomline, I say try it out. If it sucks, pull the plug and you atleast tried it.

 

Aye, Sir.

Thanks for taking this into consideration. A subculture for mead, wine, cider, and sodas would be most welcomed. I know that I've had a few threads sneak under the radar and I like to get feedback from fellow BA members instead of from homebrewtalk. The responses on BA are much more timely.

 

go for it. homebrew only though. i agree to keep all the other BA stuff just beer. call it the "fermentation forum".

prost!

 

I see cider potentially becoming very popular in the coming years, especially where apples are grown locally (thinking specifically of western North Carolina for my area). I think this is a good idea -- and possibly a good revenue generator in the longer term.

 

Todd, I voted no, not because I have anything against other fermented drinks, but it is going to be the pandora's box for beer advocate. As soon as you open this forum up to things like cider, mead, or even kombucha, you are going to have to find an argument to prevent the same changes in every other forum. If it were my site I would stick with beer.

 

Don't see why not, in the sub forums talk often goes off piste so to speak, so for example in the UK forum we've had people visiting from the US and wanting to know where to visit and what to see etc, it's a natural extension to try and inform our beer advocate friends on these despite them being not strictly beer topics. It's been a bit frustrating when I have replied to a perfectly innocent question about cider, most certainly a craft drink in the UK, and the thread has been deleted despite the good intentions of everyone in the thread - wanting to learn about a drink and giving balanced information about said drink.

I don't think anyone will come to blows over scrumpy. Or ginger beer or blackberry wine.

 

I think it could open a can of worms and cause more work for the moderators. But as long is it contained in it's own sub forum I really don't have a problem with it. But I voted no because I like the fact that this website is all about beer.

 

I agree with AlCapone. I think that a lot of the homebrewers who regularly visit and post on this forum do also branch out to Cider, Sake, etc. I think that there is a lot of potential information out there for those of us who do. While I understand this is BEER Advocate, I would be in favor of relaxing the homebrewing sub forum to allow ciders etc. or creating an additional sub-forum for other home fermentations.
I also do agree with keeping the limits on reviews and discussions of commercial cider, wine, sake, etc etc etc.
again, it is beer advocate, and there are plenty of Wine advocate, commercial Cider, sake whisk(e)y advocate etc. sites and forums out there.
I do think that homebrewing is a slightly different animal than the commercial brews, and it should be relaxed slightly.

 

I sort-of-but-not-completely understand your reasons for excluding these types of post in the past, but have tried to respect the decision, because, after all, this is your livelihood, and you need to make the decisions that are in your own best interests. That said, I have recently squeezed in a post or two about mead by trying to make it more broadly relevant to beer brewing, too. I do periodically make ciders and meads (probably make 20-30x more beer though); it would be nice if I could discuss this stuff with some of the same people I discuss beer brewing with - there are people in this forum who know a metric butt-load about fermentation and that wisdom can often be applied to non-beery beverages. But it's not a make or break thing for me. I'd like to see a place for those discussions here, but regardless of your decision, I am grateful for what you already are providing.

 

There's a long time rule of 'beer only' talk here?

Dang, guess it's a good thing I hide here in the homebrewer's section.

 

If you added that extra subforum it would give me yet another reason to enjoy regularly patronizing this website. Either way, I appreciate that the idea is being considered and that the users are being polled.

 

I like the idea. There would be a lot of opportunity for different fermentationists to share knowledge, e.g. traditional Belgian brewers have probably borrowed many ideas from winemakers (as has Vinnie from RR). Everyone participating would benefit. The Bros. would have to decide if BA benefits from their perspective... but a not-necessarily-beer forum might suck a few winemakers into the beer sphere.

 

Todd, if you guys decide to go with the yeas on this one I don't think there necessarily needs to be a sub forum for the ''other'' fermentables. It doesn't seem like you lock that many threads per year because of a question on mead/wine/cider etc. Maybe we can just redefine ''homebrew'' to homebrewed drinks (including A,B,C, etc.). Maybe you want to be more organized than that?

 

It comes up and many of the people into homebrewing want to talk about it, often in association with brewing beer and formulating recipes. If it goes into a designated space on the forum, it will be contained and not popping up in the wrong place as much.

 

Cider is a gateway drug. I vote no. Next thing, Bourbon, Tequila, Mead. It only gets worse.