Trader Beware

That sucks, and I'm sorry to hear this hasn't been resolved.

Out of curiosity, what beers were being traded?

 

You're not out any beer. He is not a bad trader. Know Dan personally and he does most trading on other sites and just not on ba very much. maybe he is not interested in trading with you any longer.
. I,m sure we've all had trade negotiations go silent or had discussions with people that were not perfect, but if you are not out any beer, he is NOT a bad trader. Simple as that. He's not obligated to make this trade if he no longer wants to, especially after you outed him here for no reason.

 

Really? Seems like you and he both have all sorts of excuses why he cannot simply respond to a trade that was already agreed upon.

He trades on other sites? Good for him. He also agreed to one on this site. He was called out for finalizing all the details, having Kyle actually get a relative to bring the trade beers down to Chicago for an IP, and then not following through or even responding to Kyle's attempts to communicate.

He's not on BA very much? He certainly has time to be involved in a BIF, post threads in said BIF, and respond to a BM I sent him just last Thursday inquiring about the exact beer he is supposed to be trading Kyle. Guess he has enough time to do all those things. It also shows when he is logged on...he's not absent from the site. He simply chooses not to respond. He's not interested anymore and wants to flake...why not take a minute out of the "time he's not on BA" to say so?

Please let's not also forget that it took a trader beware thread to get his attention and he still agreed to make good on the trade in this very thread.

It's one thing to support a friend and completely another to makes ridiculous arguments that hold no merit.

 

Since you know Dan personally, maybe you could shed some light on why he flaked on this trade twice?
People like to use the argument that "you're not out any beer" as as acceptable excuse. Where do morals fall into the equation? A trade was agreed upon and he flaked. While we're just talking about beer, acting like this in the real world would likely result in a different outcome.

 

I'd say he's definitely a bad trader. And he should be obligated to complete the trade, considered the legwork that has already been done.

 

http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/trade-with-caution-alert-tbjj4life.124414/

Maybe y'all should just start a thread & debate the merits pro & con in a general sense, before all the straw man arguments catch on fire & burn this place down.

 

I know YOU were not calling him a bad trader, but several other were. I am not here to vouch for Dan's punctuality or responsiveness to messages, but simply to help clarify that this is not a bad trader scenario. A trader you personally probably would not trade with again? Sure, but a bad trader? No. From what I've gathered you dropped off beer at a location, and Dan was supposed to go to that location to drop off his beer and get yours the next time he was in that area visiting family, correct? This has not happened yet, however, the time table was fairly open-ended if I understand correctly. It seems that it's taking longer than you would have liked, which is understandable, but does not justify other people saying that Dan is a bad trader, because no one has been ripped off of any beer. If it was really taking too long for you or you really needed Dan's beer for a tasting or something, a text or message to Dan saying "I really need this trade done by x-date, if you can't do it by then, the offer is off the table." From what I gathered, this did not happen. On the other hand, Dan easily could have had better communication on his end and if he decided not to do the deal or he knew it was going to take longer than originally planned to complete, he should have communicated that with you.

Again, I'm not here to cover for my friend or justify his communications as much as point out (to others, not you) that it's unfair to label someone as a bad trader when no one is out any beer.

 

Yet you spend your posts doing nothing but covering for your friend and justifying his communications. Weird.

Stop trying to spin it around and blame the OP on this one. Your buddy flaked on communicating about the first trade. When he was called out, he came in here and said he was going to make it right, then has since flaked again, while continuing to use the site and take trade offers. He had a chance to walk away and didn't, because he wanted to look like he was making this right, but he failed again. 100% bad trader, as far as I'm concerned.

People need to learn to take responsibility for their actions, and stop making so many damn excuses.

 

"Bad Trader" is a term reserved for those that rip others off, not those that are just lazy, don't communicate, are crappy packers,send no extras, etc. No one has been ripped off of any beer.

When exactly does someone become obligated to make a trade? If we agree to a trade and you send me a box of beer, but upon receipt of said beer I decide I no longer want to make the trade, so instead of sending you the beers we agreed to, I send you your beers back, does that make me a bad trader? NO!!!! Does it make me someone you would not trade with again and would not vouch for in a reference? YES!!!!! there is a HUGE difference! (well, I guess it doesn't make a huge difference since there is no bad trader's list anymore. everyone with a gripe or complaint can just make a thread labeling someone as a bad trader and that person is as good as labeled).

 

As far I know, he has not flaked on the trade. The time table for dropping off the beer was open ended from the beginning. It's not a like Dan and the OP agreed to meet at a certain time/place and Dan just didn't show up. The beer was dropped off at a 3rd party location on the terms that the next time Dan was in the area he would exchange the beer at the 3rd party location.

Has it taken longer than the OP wanted? Obviously. Has his communication been sub-par? apparently. Is it immoral to rip someone off? Yes. Is it immoral to lack punctuality and communication? not really.

the "real world" consequence to this is that people several people have probably now put Dan on their personal "don't want to trade with" list, which is their absolute right to do, but much different than a bad trader list. I've probably gone on some of those lists for trying to add clarification to the situation, but such is life. People throwing the "bad trader" term around flippantly is something I do not like, whether it's a friend or not.

 

No one out of beer isn't really the one and only thing that makes a bad trader. To the OP just kill it, and move on, hard to get beer or not, nothing is worth dealing with this stuff. When a guy goes MIA twice just forget it, he's not interested or it would get done, and after all he is so terribly busy 24/7/365 since Aug, with no time before bed to type out a quick BM, how in the world would he ever find time to deliver the beer.

There is a difference between being a bad trader and a beer thief. This guy isn't a thief, but he is a bad trader.

 

I said in the most recent post, that Dan's communication could have and probably should have been better. Don't know how that is justifying, but ok.

Again, the whole point of what I have been trying to do is communicate the difference between a bad trader who rips someone off and someone you would put on your personal "do not want to trade with" list. There is a difference. If you want to put Dan on your personal list, you have every right to do that. I just get frustrated that everyone with a gripe or complaint about a trade labeling their trading partner as a bad trader.

The OP originally said that Dan is not a bad trader because he's not out any beer. That should tell you something.

 

Interesting that the Bad Trader list only included those that stole/ripped people off, yet it was not called the "beer thief list"

 

If a trade takes 2 months and it's still up in the air, and the guy disappears for long stretches with no communication : what would you call that? Bad trader IMO encompasses more than just stealing a guys beer. Would you want to be in that position? I'd kill the Trade and be done with it, I wouldn't of made a post here either, I for have just sent him Bm saying see ya.

 

'Bad trader' used to mean out beer or money. This is indesputable fact. You can say I think this guy is a bad trader, but relative to this forum, where a list was once maintained with 'bad traders', those that were douches or flaked were not 'bad traders'.
Call them whatever you want but please stop calling them bad traders because there is specfic criteria which has not been met.

It may be semantics but it is what it is.

 

Exactly my point. He'd be on your personal "bad trader" list. You wouldn't call him out publicy (even thought the OP said he's not a bad trader in the initial post), so that everyone else could tag him with a scarlet letter. You may post something on your profile, you would not give references for him, etc and that's perfectly fine.

 

I'd agree with this

 

Maybe we'll call those people that are douches or flakes "People I will not trade with personally (unless, of course, I see an opportunity to really win the trade #walezbro, then I'll make the offer but if they don't come through and I don't win then I'll call them out) or recommend to my partners or people that ask me for references"

Seems long, but appropriate nowadays.