Rebel IPA vs Lagunitas?

As to why they copied you Tony, I think it's more than likely because you guys are unparalleled in combining affordability, quality, acclaim (specifically sucks) and rapid expansion for west coast style IPAs. I can't think of any brewery off hand that marries all of those concepts to your degree.

I'm a Sam fan, but rest assured I'd take a lagunitas ipa over a rebel any day at any bar. Keep it up Tony, and happy New Years.

 

I have to agree with the folks who are saying meh about this. I am not a SA hater, I think they do some interesting stuff, but their ales have never appealed to me, I favor American/California style IPA over European style IPAs which seems to be SA's thing. It would be interesting if they put out an IPA to get excited about, but I don't see it happening...

 

Tried them both, lagunitas is better.

 

Epic post by Tony. Competition is what makes every industry better for us as consumers. BB wants to stomp as much as they can out and rolling into the ipa matket(don't kid yourself that what they've sold so far compares to real ipas) they chose Lagunitas as the most competitive. Some of u will argue that tony is just worried about the cash in all of this and not us or the beer. I ask u this, as good as their ipa, sumpthin sumpthin, brown shugga, hop stoopid all are, and they're all usually $8-10 or less (I'm in Bama where so far we have been getting screwed on some pricing) is he trying to just sell more beer? I don't think so, u can feel the passion he has in this post alone. I'm pumped to finally have Lagunitas here (just bought another brown shrugga sixer today) and this makes me a bigger fan.

 

Sam Adams is a gateway beer. Gets you trying things besides miller lite, etc. Lagunitas is a main event type brewery. Give me lagunitas any day.

 

you know, reading that Twitter shit is a headache. all those @blahblah in the middle of a poorly worded sentence. fuck anyone who gets a rise out of this garbage

 

BB should stick to IPL's if they want to get hoppy. The IPA market is saturated enough and Lagunitas is one of the clear champions of IPA's.

 

I'm glad that Tony posted here. Great to have info directly from the source.
I would like to head BB's side of the story, then I will make my final decision as to what to think about the matter.

 

I assume BBC has a much larger staff and that Jim does not really concern himself in matters like this. Cheers to Tony for speaking up, but at the same time they are one of the biggest in the craft game (which at the end of the day is still a buisness). This is not like BBC targeting your favorite state only brewery. Brew the better beer(which they do IMO) and you will keep your handles, even if the bar gets a couple of free kegs.

As cynical as this may sound we have to remember that while we are a community these are still businesses. With hundreds popping up every year there is not going to be room for everyone.

 

I like Lagunitas, but come on. They aren't exactly some small time brewery getting muscled around by Boston Beer Co. I realize they are significantly smaller than BB Co., but they're still the 6th largest craft brewer in the US. You can't tell me that they haven't pushed smaller brewers to the side in certain markets.

 

Hi theNightwatchman.. You said I 'can't tell you', so I have to tell you...

We have never 'targeted' other brewers, and here's why; In January of 1995 Safeway (NorCal) brought in our Pale Ale. This was the biggest opportunity to grow in our 18-month existence. I wanted to make a small 'point of sale' tag to put on the shelf along with the six-pack. In CA, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale was the only pale on the market and most people actually thought that that was the name of their brewery. I wanted to differentiate ourselves from them so people might choose. I made a little tag that said 'Lagunitas, The Other Pale Ale'. Ron Lindenbusch, my marketing weasel, coughed a little a told me that he thought that might get SNB really upset with us. I shrugged. Ron said to call them and ask, so I did.

I spoke to a really smart and extra savvy guy there named Steve Harrison, their market guru. I described it to Steve and the why of it and he listened and calmly responded "We believe each brand should promote itself on its own merits". That was so simple and so evolved at the same time that I caught my breath and had to, after a long pause, tell him that I completely understood, which I did, and I have never forgotten those words and we've lived by them. I have principles but many of them I've learned slowly over the 20 years of doing this. That was a learning moment, and this situation is exactly that situation all over again.

There is a lot of jostling that goes on in our turbulent industry and others tap handles have fallen to us and many of ours have fallen to others, never as a directed effort on our part, and always by very new brewers coming to the market who are learning the same lessons of civility that I learned from Steve Harrison. A mature brewer doing this is a whole other thing.

Someday ABI will make an IPA and come after us all. I will take every opportunity now to stare down the petty tyrants in preparation for the confrontation with the biggest tyrant; itself a form of preparation for the day with the ultimate tyrant. (you'll hafta read some Carlos Castenada to know who that tyrant is...)

Happy 2014 Eve!

 

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/35/95386/

is what the fuss is about? geez that makes what 5000 IPA on the market now? How does a hop head pick from all that. joking, you pick blind folded of course. lol.

One thing I say for Lag over most other brewers is the price is NICE.

sadly most are just too hoppy for me.

 

I thank you for writing that. A good read. I just hope when the reins of these biggest "good beer brewers" get handled down it does not repeat history. Public traded companies will be the first to go to profit and costs and market driven etc. You know the deal. its been debated lately (on the beer blogs & twitter). I figure a shake out is coming. note I did Not say Bubble. big guys will buy or take over the little ones. etc

anyway nice post.

I hope the spirit the early "craft beer" brewers had will live on..... I always say California is another country.

Cheers!

 

In order to achieve good results from a "program" like the one described by Tony I guess it helps to aim at a larger singular target such as Lagunitas IPA than to have to identify and target a bunch of smaller brands in the different local markets. I'm not a marketing guy, but I would imagine that such a focus would be helpful and effective, similar to how the bigger players try to replicate a successful product made by a competitor and then specifically target that competitor.

The reason as to why they are doing this might come down to a few things, one of them being that BBC has grown to a size where it's more difficult to grow, and they might feel that the gloves have to come off so to speak. Parallell with this I would think that in an organization the size of BBC, the thinking becomes more similar to a larger business, with marketing people who come from large companies within or outside the beer business, that bring along with them a different mentality than the one which might pervade in a smaller company. When you can't rely on the product selling itself any longer, at least not in the volumes which are required by your size and costs of production, then there's also a greater need for marketing teams and marketing strategies, with these functions being separated from the brewing side as a specialized department, with the separation being greater as a function of size.

It's interesting I think to consider whether we are seeing the structural or social limitations of the often idealized vision of craft brewing, or any other form of human organization. Trying to maintain that sense of community and altruism that might characterize a smaller, close knitt group of people, as it develops into a larger formal organization might prove very difficult.

I suppose that ownership could be an important factor to consider here, and the difference between a privately owned business with a "benevolent" ruler-owner as opposed to a traded company with a board to boot.

 

wow good read. thanks for sharing.

 

BBC is a public company with common stock, I happen to own a few shares. So it was bound to happen.

 

DogTown kills it, drops the mic, and lights a cigar...cheers!

 

"It's interesting I think to consider whether we are seeing the structural or social limitations of the often idealized vision of craft brewing, or any other form of human organization"

This is the essential element that I have been circumlocuting...! This is a sea change. However, at the large scale level of this industry these things become the game, so to speak, while at the other end of the scale there are beautiful smaller brewers for whom getting caught up in these programs could spell disaster.

Lagunitas, so far, straddles these two worlds and as long as I am holding the reins all I can say is 'I don't wanna grow up', meaning, I still want to stand for something and not just whatever comes into my field of view. Feeding on the host, the industry you come from, is parasitism. At a 12-share of an industry there can still be a lot of open field running.

 

Right, that last piece of conjecture was meant as a thinly veiled description of Lagunitas and BBC .

 

Yes I detected the sarcasm , so yea I got it. The simple fact is as nice as the balloon theory is. Its the shelf space and bar tap space. That is where the competition thing happens. The Free market and anything goes to win is the American way, and its not very pretty when exposed. You know?

Sooner or later the all mighty dollar hunt takes over any biz, that wants to survive.
Cynical but true.