Beer Karma is real!

Looking to go $4$ is one thing but when various traders try and tip the scales in their favor it reeks like the stench of a used car salesman.

 

These posts that show up now and then are amusing as hell. Sure, people will stop ransoming their beers and arguing about trade value and such.

And I'll marry a supermodel, win an F1 race, etc. etc.

 

I already won an F1 race... Now I just need a supermodel. Any takers?

 

If everyone limited themselves to trading with others who behave in that way it might work. I make a point of not trading with people who ransom beers or want to match everything down to the dime.

My last trade included 2 bottles of a high demand 1200 bottle brewery only release. In exchange I received off the shelf locals that I was in a hurry to get for a tasting. The trader on the other end took a bottle out of an inexpensive 6-pack on his end to make sure "things were even". The extras I had included put me way over on $4$ and lightyears ahead on rarity. I'm still happy and enjoying what I received, but I won't trade with him again. It wasn't a fun experience, and why are we trading beer if it isn't fun anymore?

 

Sure, and good for you.

But does anyone really think this will happen to any large extent, anything other than behind-the-scenes trading partners?

Some of the more "respected" traders on this site have spreadsheets listing "trade value" for all the beers they care about. And almost every post in the Trading General forum is "what is this beer worth" and "how much can I get for this beer".

/shrug

 

Of course not, but I'm not a huge trader either - so this works for me. I'm not cellaring a ton of whales. I've never even posted a ISO/FT. I will answer others by BM, but when I get my hands on a limited release I drink a couple bottles myself and trade a couple away and I move on. I do however look through the posting history of anyone new that I'm going to trade with and try to get a feel as to whether they're one of beer-loving-easy-going type or the scorched-earth-get-one-over-business type. If they're the latter, then thats all the less $ I end up spending shipping beers.

 

Not sure how this is supposed to happen when new traders get told over and over in Trading General that you never trade locals for a limited release.

 

I know exactly how you feel I've had a few trades lately that I helped a person get a highly rated or sought after beer and the ttrade was locals 4 locals I just asked if he would throw in a few solid extras for it. He agreed I guess I needed to define Solid....:-(


But won't trade with that guy again no worries though I've got beers too. Bad part is he hit up a buddy for a trade and my buddy asked if he was solid I told him the story and well now he didn't get the trade with him.
I always throw in a "few" extras that are wants or beers I'd enjoy as extras!

Jamie

 

I don't really believe much in supernatural things like karma, because honestly if you do, then how far down does the rabbit hole go in terms of believing in superstition?

Also, bartering is simply trying to get equal value for whatevwer you have. Would it be nice to get a Chocolate Rain for a Dark Lord? Sure. Is anyone going to actually give up their Rain? All signs point to no. Is it fair? Pretty much. Is it frustrating? Sure. Is it changable? No.

 

behind-the-scenes trading partners are created by these types of $4$ trades (although even $4$ goes out the window with regular partners and it just becomes about sharing good beer). the way to build up trading relationships is to follow the golden rule. if you squeeze beer out of me in a trade you can bet i won't be looking to trade with you again unless you are my only option, however if you are cool and easy to work with, then you'll be at the top of my list of people to hook up when i get something desirable (and of course, i'll swap that limited thing your way for any $4$ beers that i want that you can get...even off the shelf locals).

i'd be hard pressed to call someone a "respected" trader if they list trade value in any kind of way beyond cost in a spreadsheet. perhaps what you meant to say was some of the more "active" traders on this site? i would love to see an example of what this trade value classification is as i couldn't fathom it being a $ amount above cost, right?

the general help forum really has become a hype machine...but when it was first created and the pure intention behind those posts used to be, what actually got done so people can gauge what to trade.

agreed that most public trading has gone off the deep end and is worse than ever...but behind the scenes trading is thriving.

 

One could argue that the creation of the general help forum is as much to blame for the current state of public trading as the few months of no-posting in ISO:FT...

 

i think that this is just the normal downward spiral created by the expansion and growth of the community. when i joined the site about 3 years ago, you heard many people claiming how things had gone down hill a lot...but trading was still pretty reasonable. at that time you could also buy a BCBCS when it hit shelves and then go back a few weeks later to get another...so it really was all about $4$ since we were just going out to the store to buy beer and then send it to each other. what you could get was local and brewery only releases weren't out of hand either.

with the crazy increase in people interested in small batch and limited beers and the only marginal increases in supply (if at all) basic economics kick in. wherever you have demand far exceeding supply there will be an opportunist who will look to make out. the problem being what people are actually willing to give up is extreme. it then becomes hard to ignore the fact that a beer that you bought for $10 in your local store is fetching 5 times the amount on the open trading market...and others start to say, well if i can get that, why shouldn’t i? it all starts feeding off of each other. then the stuff that you want to try becomes hard to get ahold of and you are forced to play the game as well – but that is sort of the equalizer (the rarity4rarity factor). The problem really comes into play when you don’t have any rare chips to work with…those are the losers in the equation so they do what they can to get those rare chips which results in clusterf*cks at brewery releases and stuff gone from shelves the day it arrives.

i equate it to other community type things i’ve been involved in. Phish for example is very much a community and a real microcosm of our society at large. at first it was small and a well kept secret…and it was easy to maintain the vibe of community and helping each other out. tickets were miracled (given for free to ticketless) and generally everyone was looking out for each other. as it grew in popularity, the community aspect remained, but went underground because on the surface the demand was high so scalpers took notice and this also brought in a lot of riff raff who were just there because it was where the party was at (DLD anyone?). you started hearing more and more stories of thefts and just bad news. eventually the bubble burst when the band broke up…when they got back together less people cared and now tickets are easier to get ahold of, but at times things sell out and the opportunists are there for those occasions, but other times when there isn’t interest, the opportunists get stuck with unsold tickets and take a loss, so they start losing interest.

the bubble for beer won’t burst for a while, but in a few years when all the hoarders start to open those 5+ year old bottles of beer and find out that they are over the hill and no one wants them they’ll come to their senses and stop chasing down multiples of limited stuff for "aging" or future trading. imagine if you gave up half your cellar for a wooden hell and then held it too long. from the looks of some of the more recent reviews it might already be on its way down.

drink them bottles people, or trade them for stuff that you will drink, because drinking down hundreds of bottles ain’t easy and these things do go bad over time. you don’t want to wake up and see that you have 500+ bottles that you don’t want and no one else wants…and right now lots of traders seem to be just stocking up. it literally will be money down the drain. but i digress...A LOT.

 

More traders like you would seem to be a great thing. Attitudes and trading practices like that would be the kind of thing that would encourage people to trade who just want to try new beers, share, and so on.

Just to be clear- I don't trade. I was just putting forth some observations.

 

The Greed will sooner or later catch up to the hoarders and people that hold there beers hostage I've got many great bottles from like minded people that I've traded with and talked to over time

And thanks to them sharing the beer love random bottles and boxes have just been sent as a hey try this its a great beer limited or not!

Its about trying some beer not running an auction for $ or the most beer in return!

 

I agree with much of what you're saying, but I still would have preferred that there were rules placed on the General/Help forum from the outset. Well, one rule really: No "What is the value of my X?" threads. I think, much like ISO:FT threads, the questions presented in General/Help should have to be as specific as possible. There are way to many threads fishing for just one person who agrees with their over-inflated value for their beers, turning them (let's be honest here) into auction-style trade threads, when you boil it down.

Side note - fortunately, thanks to backfat at DLD, I don't have to be one of those people trading away half my cellar for an over the hill Wooden Hell. It helps to make beer friends

 

Jamie, it was actually a couple of your posts that made me start to feel comfortable with the idea of trading beers. I can't remember exactly, but I saw you offer up beer to either a new trader or someone who had been burned and the way you wrote it was clear that you still get excited about getting boxes in the mail. When I described in my earlier post that I try to seek out people that seem to legitimately love beer and enjoy drinking it was those exact situations that I was describing.

The avatar sticks out and remember the posts (is that a green egg?). Cheers to you and everyone else that makes BA a great site. I went shopping for my first BIF this evening (iat the store and in the cellar) and had more fun than I ever have had shopping for myself.

 

Curious about the exact stuff traded.

 

yeah, another big problem with those "what is the value of my X?" threads is that it gives people an opportunity to team up to either inflate or deflate the value of a beer...and that's really all that happens. believe it or not, people also lie about trades that got done.

 

I think in the right situation, the "what does it take to land X?" threads are actually pretty helpful. They can often give some context to the demand for a particular beer and also give specific examples of successful trades. Overall very useful info for new traders. Probably also cuts down a little on the "ISO Vanilla Dark Lord FT Brian Boru".

The "what is my X worth?" threads are often no different than an auction without a sale at the end...not good IMO for the BA community