Why does Germany = Beer?

"Innovative twist"? No. How 'bout "desirable variation", though?

 

Not to mention your same argument of apples to oranges.

The way these sort of arguments all boil down for me is; I like American IPA. I like English IPA. I like many English-style Ales of all nationality. I like Stouts of all nationality. I don't like all German-style beers: either from Germany or the U.S. But the majority of German-style beers I'd rank in an upper class come from -- you guessed it, Germany.

Hah! Laughed out loud there.

 

Rice was well established in German brewing in the 19th century;
"Amongst malt surrogates, rice is gaining in popularity from year to year. It is used as an additive to the grist in the proportion of 1:2 or 3:5; and beers brewed with the addition of rice are renowned for their especially pleasant taste and clear pale colour. Since rice is slightly cheaper than malt and with regard to sugar content is superior (100 kg of rice is equal to 120-130 kg malt in this respect), so its use in beer is financially advantageous. "
Once again, acknowledgments to Ron http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2007/07/rice-beer.html

 

Yea, I was aware of that. Just making a joke about the current (and past?) "craft" marketing speak.

Heck, maybe BMC still brews "authentic Northern German style pilsners"?

 

It's relevant to the thread in that many posters have the impression that the Germans have been brewing the same stuff for hundreds of years.

 

I thought this paragraph about two and "multirow" barley, taken from the Bavarian agricultural institute was rather interesting.

"In Germany both two and multi-row barley is cultivated. With a share of around 70 percent the multi-row dominates, and a clear north-south divide can be observed. While in north and east Germany hardly any two-row breeds are seen, they have traditionally been preferred in the south."

Considering the fact that 6-row barley was the dominant type of barley in Sweden up until the late 1800s, and used in Swedish brewing up until then (when pale pilsner-type beers were introduced), it makes sense that there would be a north-south divide also within modern day Germany in the cultivation of types of barley.

If one combines these local "multirow" barley varieties with the introduction of the new pilsner-type beers, it starts to make sense why north German brewers would adopt adjuncts for brewing, and why the same didn't apply for the south German brewers, since they had ready access to two-row barley when brewing the new Helles style of beer.

 

when it comes to spirits in Germany, what about jägermeister?

 

I only used the main spirits and my list was for fun, not exhaustive.

 

Beers is part of the German stereotype. So is vodka for Russia and whisky for Scotland.
Does the best vodka in the world come from Russia, the best whisky from Scotland?

To me, culture is a big part. Drinking when you are 16, drinking in public and drinking every day of the week is "normal" in Germany. In Bavaria the typical Hefeweizen with breakfast is not uncommon. Beer drinking is popular through all social classes. In the Biergarten everybody is the same. If you watch Michael Jackson's Beer Hunter series about Germany you will get a good impression on Bavarian/German Beer culture.

Average beer in Germany in cheap, regional and from high quality compared to international standards. Even the common German thinks that German beer is the best in the world. If a German is not a beer geek and travels abroad he/she will probably drink the biggest and most well known beer brand of the country. These beers all around the world are mostly German style lagers, and most of them taste worse than the average German made beer.
Even the weakest German beers like Warsteiner have a lot more flavor than the typical BMC beers. This brings up the impression that beer in general is better in Germany than somewhere else.
The world class craft beers of the US are still far away to be recognized as part of the US culture throughout the world.

Otherwise I go with the post from Crusader:

"German beer had a good reputation since the middle ages in Sweden."
and
"The world-wide reputation for German beer might date to the mid to late 1800s, when German brewmasters and brewing techniques was spread so widely across the world, and otherwise emulated and imitated. With such a dominance established in beer making, it is hardly any wonder if German and beer becomes synonymous."

exactly, prost!

 

I think it's to do with climate.A continental climate tends to produce barley less suitable for brewing than a maritime one.That's probably why British brewers always mashed by infusion but on the continent decoction was necessary.The Europeans wished to emulate Pale Ale but it took them 200 years to brew an acceptable pale beer.
The use of adjuncts such as rice dilutes undesirable components in the malt and enables lower specification malt to be used in brewing.

 

Years ago, I had a girlfriend that spent a lot of time in Germany. She often brought back pint size bottles of some artisinal schnapps that was utterly delicious and seemingly psycho-active. It was like an excellent botanical gin.

 

Patrik, I am assuming that multi-row = six-row.

Below is a nice discussion of two-row vs. six-row barley from Wikipedia:

“Two-row barley has a lower protein content than six-row barley, thus more fermentable sugar content. High protein barley is best suited for animal feed. Malting barley is usually lower protein[9] ('low grain nitrogen', usually produced without a late fertilizer application) which shows more uniform germination, needs shorter steeping, and has less protein in the extract that can make beer cloudy. Two-row barley is traditionally used in English ale-style beers. Six-row barley is common in some American lager style beers, especially when adjuncts such as corn and rice are used, whereas two-row malted summer barley is preferred for traditional German beers.”

In a nutshell, the ‘challenge’ of using six-row for brewing is it high protein content. This high protein content can be ‘managed’ by using some adjuncts like corn or rice as part of the beer’s grain bill. The German brewers appeared to prefer rice as their adjunct, while the German immigrant brewers and American brewers in the US used both corn and rice as their adjuncts. I believe that more corn was typically used vs. rice. Maybe @jesskidden can provide some figures here.

Cheers!

 

Right, and the problem with high proteins only really manifested itself when brewers wanted to make the new pilsner-type beers. The earlier Bavarian lager beer was dark enough to where protein haze was less of a problem (Swedish brewers would have used 6-row barley exclusively to brew the new Bavarian style lager from the 1840s until at least the 1870s when pilsner-style beers were introduced, and farmers and brewers switched to the 2-row Chevallier breed of barley). And the beers brewed prior to the introduction of the Bavarian lager would mostly have been similarly dark due to smoke kiln-dried malts (weissbier using air-dried malt has traditionally been hazy as I understand it due to the use of wheat, and limited amounts of weissbier was imported to Sweden in the 16th century, so "pale beer" was not a new thing per se, but clear beer certainly was). I suppose that the Bavarian lager beers might have been less hazy due to the use of 2-row in combination with the lagering, but on the other hand the common serving vessels used in the early to late 1800s (and prior to this) might have made this a moot point.

 

The climate theory is an interesting one, but I thought it was new kilning techniques using indirect heat (inspired by English developments in this area) rather than new types of barley or grists that led to the invention of the pilsner-style of beer (i.e the Bohemian barley was already 2-row and thus suitable for pale beers)? Also, with there being a north-south divide in Germany between 2-row and what I assume is 6-row varieties, wouldn't the southern German 2-row varieties have been similarly suitable for brewing as the English varieties (i.e less protein)? And one also often hears about the good quality barley grown in Bohemia, which is not exactly in a maritime climate.

 

Patrik, brewers can utilize infusion mashing if the malt is well modified. Present day malts are typically well modified whether it be from two-row barley or six-row barley. In the past continental pilsner malt was not well modified (i.e., under-modified). A step mash is needed to properly mash under-modified malt. Some breweries still conduct decoction mashing as part of the step mash process; there is a perception by some brewers that the decoction mashing provides more ‘depth’ of malty flavors to the beer. Whether a decoction mash is needed/necessary in brewing is a bit controversial with folks having differing opinions on this particular aspect. A number of German breweries have discontinued decoction mashing since it is expensive (high energy cost) and the ‘benefits’ of decoction is somewhat debatable.

In summary, conducting an infusion mash is more a function of how well modified the malt it. When I homebrew with German Pilsner malt I conduct an infusion mash since the present day German malts are well modified. I have heard tell that it is possible to purchase under-modified Pilsner malt but I have not seen any at my local homebrew stores.

Cheers!

 

Maritime conditions lead to lower nitrogen.We grow lovely wheat in the UK but for breadmaking we import it from North America because a high nitrogen level is preferred (strong flour)
I fiound this on my travels.Source is http://www.beer-pages.com/stories/czechs.htm
"Decoction mashing, widely used in the Czech Republic and Germany, tackles the problem of the poorer quality of continental barley malt compared to the "maritime" varieties grown in Britain and the Low Countries. The problem is solved by using a series of linked vessels during the mashing process, with portions of the mash - the mix of barley malt and pure hot water - pumped from one vessel to another and raised to a higher temperature before being returned to the original vessel. "

 

Germany to me equals mainly lager beers which I rarely drink any more. England is my beer country. In every pub there is real cask ale, can't be beat IMHO.

 

That all sounds fantastic but once again German beer is mainly lager, hefe's, alts, etc. Not my thing. Give me a real English pub serving real cask ale any day.

 

Interesting. I'm starting to get in over my head as far as chemistry goes at this point, but in a nutshell, am I correct in ascertaining that the problem with malt high in nitrogen and or protein is similar, in that it causes haze in the beer (and it is my understanding that malt high in protein also results in less fermentables)?

 

I take it that a well modified malt makes it easier to convert more of the starches into sugar, whereas an under-modified malt takes more work, hence the step-mashing, to convert the desired amount of starch into sugar, am I close or way of the mark?