Is it okay to make a starter without wort? So like fruit juice or sugar solution or something? My initial thought is 'no' but thought I'd run it by you guys.
@ssam , If you are AG, you should be taking runnings out of your mashtun AFTER you get your kettle on the burner. You should draw a gallon or so and boil it down on the stove while you're boil is going on the main kettle. If you're low on your post boil gravity and you're short on volume, you've to something to add back into the main kettle without worry of DMS. If not then you have something you can throw in your freezer and use for starters later. I've been known to draw a few gallons and let it cook for most of a day. It'll cook down to like 1.080 wort that I'll add RO to when I make my starter to make it more manageable for the yeast. It takes up less freezer space this way.
Wait a minute, why can't you just add yeast to warm water and sugar to make a starter? I mean, I know you would want to make sure its sanitary and all, but why would yeast loose its ability to ferment maltose if its started in this way?
we are talking liquid yeast. dry yeast is the same but different. the life cycle of the little yeast gets very complex quickly, but in short yeast that is produced commercially and dried has already gone through the beneficial starter stage. if you need more dried yeast, add another package. don't bother to make a starter with dry yeast, not unless you want to spend time and money to produce what a professional lab can do way better for a few dollars. yeast will adapt to their environment. we want a lot of healthy cells that are ready to make beer. that means they are ideally programmed to consume maltose and not just simple sugar. Cheers.
Yeast grown with simple sugars do not make the enzyme necessary to break down maltose and would result in poor attenuation in wort (mostly maltose). Yeast play by their rules . . . not ours.
Whew! I just proofed a package of dry yeast in sugar just to make sure it was still good, and to give it a little boost before adding it to the wort. It took off and bubbled away, so I wasn't sure what I was missing. Thanks.
I believe it's actually the specific transporters (rather than enzymes) for the higher sugars that they stop making, becoming temporary specialists at eating the sucrose (and lower sugars). Same idea though. There's really no benefit to giving the yeast a tiny amount of sugars before pitching, but it probably doesn't really hurt either. I'm not sure how many people bother to proof dry yeast any more. I think it has sort of gone out of fashion since commercial dry yeast is much more reliable than in the olden times. But if it boosts your confidence in the yeast, go for it.
This (talk of simple sugar starters) is why pushing starters is not a good thing...make a smaller batch if you have to...or get over you fear of dry yeast
Are you drawing a distinction between proofing and rehydrating? Do people still think that [edit: that is, rehydrating] is useful to do?
we are going off on a tangent... but rehydrating yeast does increase yield. and it is possibly the easiest and most fail-proof step in yeast management. so its not like you are making life difficult or wasting time when you put yeast in 100 degree water and make a slurry. easy. if you don't think it helps your beer, so be it. but a lot of brewers are arguably spending way more effort inventing other problems to fix.
it has been debated. without looking for the thread I am fairly certain you participated. also, there is this up above...
Yeah, I didn't mean to start a discussion about the merits, I just wanted to make sure I understood the terminology people were using.
