Ale vs Lager

Well that makes it a truly unique style then, that falls into a gray area somewhere between ales and lagers. Kind of a hermaphrodite of the beer world. The existence of sexual hermaphrodites doesn't call into question the correctness of the basic classification of humans as males and females. In the same way, the existence of a few unusual "hermaphrodite" beer styles shouldn't question the validity and usefullness of classifying beers as either ale or lager

 

Ales generally have more flavor and taste better and more complex than lagers. They generally cost more because people are willing to pay more for them. IMO very few lager styles are actually worth drinking but if you're looking for good ones try Eisbock or Dopple Bock, barrel aged if you can find it.

 

Wait. So you are saying there are three families; ale, lager, and beer? Is beer like a hybrid style or something, like California Common?

 

Hilarious

 

You can include Cream Ale in that gray area.

 

The POF gene is the one that creates Phenolic Off Flavors. Undesirable in most yeast, but in some beers it is part of the signature flavor.

 

You shouldn't go there. You don't know what you're about to get into.

 

Wow!
I'm just going to sit back and watch. This absurd statement has set you up for a tsunami of disagreeing posts. I'll bet that's exactly why you said it though.

 

There are many families.If you like, divide between top and bottom fermented brews as a basis.But just don't call all top fermented beers ales because there are also porters, kolsches and so on which never belonged to the ale family and resent being frogmarched into the class.

I never said that ale is not beer , even in this country it's been called that for 200 years.I was following the thread of brewing different styles.There were two sets of brewers, ale and beer and early on ales were unhopped, then lightly hopped.By 1800 or so ale was pale and beer meant porter/stout.That's why IPA wasn't called IPB.
So the two families became ales and porters , beer being used as an overall name as it is today.

 

Well, that's the terminology in use a couple hundred years ago in England. Hardly a reason for the rest of the world to adapt it. Because of Canada's very close cultural ties to your country, it's hardly surprising they once used your beer terminology. They don't anymore.

To the rest of the beer drinking world, stouts are a style of ale.

 

So please humor me: what are the families?

 

I chose one American "Ale and Porter" label as well as the Canadian one. Subsuming porter into the ale family is very recent and seems to stem from the homebrewing fraternity, perhaps as the result of mislabelling yeast.
I notice that Jesskidden in his post above says "Lots of US ales and porters were also fermented with lager yeast in the pre-craft era."

 

Almost all beer made these days is fermented with one of to species of yeast: Saccharomyces cerevisiae and Saccharomyces pastorianus. The later has also been called carlsbergensis and uvarum at various times and you'll still hear each of those names thrown around. Some scientists even insist that the two species are really variations of a single species, but I think the most current theory is that they are genetically distinct enough to remain separate (scientists almost never completely agree in anything, so such is life).

Beers sold as lagers are almost invariably fermented with pastorianus, as it was the yeast that had adapted to the cold brewing practices of lager brewers when yeast was discovered and isolated. Lagers are generally fermented colder, or at higher temperatures but with a high amount of pressure in the fermenting vessel, both which have the effect of reducing the amount of fusel alcohols and esters produced, which provide fuller, fruitier aromas and flavors to beer. Lagers are therefor generally less fruity and "cleaner" tasting than ales. A typical lager fermentation temperature range in a more traditional brewery is about 45-55F, with colder being more traditional and used by many Czech and German brewers. Modern lager brewers producing mass-market beers at lower prices often ferment at temperatures in the low ale range (60F or above) and use higher vessel pressure to keep the beers from achieving a more ale-like character. This allows for a much faster fermentation and lower costs. Steam beer was another, older variation on this technique that used pastorianus yeast in very shallow, open fermenters at higher temperatures to produce a unique beer that is still sort of a lager.

After lagers, things get a lot more complicated. In most of the world, lagers wiped out most of the indigenous beer styles and became the overwhelming style of beer. Since English ales endured in popularity, scientists eventually came to refer the cerevisiae yeast used to ferment them as "ale yeast" and then the english speaking brewing world kind of retroactively started calling anything made with cerevisiae yeast an ale. This includes most Belgian styles (though mixed and spontaneous fermented beers are another issue), German wheat beer, koelsch, and altbier, porter, stout. So it was a multi-step evolution from taking the species of yeast used to make ale, which was a specific family of beer, calling it and ale yeast, and then subsequently calling any other beer made with it an ale.

 

But ya, some porters are lagers and some are made with ale yeast. It's just a more complicated issue than everything is one of two sides, though many seem to want to keep it that way.

 

Lager just refers to a beer that has been lagered. Ales can be lagered, and un lagered beers can utilize bottom fermenting yeast.

 

Thank you @bulletrain76 for the treatise you provided above; well thought out and well written.

The statement of “Almost all beer made these days is fermented with one of two species of yeast…” is indeed true. You made mention of “though mixed and spontaneous fermented beers are another issue” but I thought for completeness I would mention that some breweries are fermenting solely with Brettanomyces. Brettanomyces is generally considered to be a wild yeast but since there are several strains being cultured and made available to brewers (e.g., Wyeast and White Labs sell cultured Brettanomyces yeast strains) I would guess at some point in time these will likely be considered cultured (domesticated) yeast vs. wild yeast.

Cheers!

 

But lagering an ale does not make it a lager. Conversely, not lagering and lager doesn't make it an ale. There is lager the process and lager the beer style, which is a combination of yeast species and fermentation process.

 

And these are a new style if beer that I think deserve a new classification, though to the drinker they taste more like a belgian ale than anything else to it will be tempting to lump them in a such.

 

Seriously, using a sign from a Boston brewery nearly 140 years ago to "prove" that English terminology is the correct usage doesn't establish anything. All it shows is that a brewery in New England, a region with a still strong English heritage in 1875, once used your terms. I doubt you would have found similar signs in Wisconsin or southeast Pennsylvania, given their strong German heritage.

Regardless, no country except yours still uses those terms with your unique distinctions. They may still be correct in your minds, but they were never universally accepted in other parts of the world. While I consider Britain one of the world's great brewing countries and have much respect for your cask ale, I don't see you as the ultimate source or standard for all things beer.

Jesskidden used the term ales and porter, but he didn't claim that a porter isn't an ale.

 

Is this a serious post?