Lost Package

The first time I traded with a BA the box had a broken growler and intercepted by UPS in grand rapids...they didn't destroy it, but let me come and retrieve the remainder of the beer. I drove across Michigan, from Detroit to Grand Rapids to recover the beers, over $100 worth of Kuhnhenn releases and reshipped. I now have this person as a regular trade partner who will go above and beyond my expectations with anything I need from their area.

 

In my eyes there's a difference between a package that was lost by UPS and a package that was damaged and/or confiscated. If it's damaged then that should fall on the shipper to replace any and all bottles, as they are liable for the packaging. If it was lost, I think it's good karma and a nice gesture to replace the bottles (or send a nice package if those bottles are not replaceable), but I don't think it's a requirement. I would definitely consider it bad form, but at the end of the day that is UPS's screw up, not the sender's. If a claim is filed and they reimburse the sender, at the very least the person receiving the package should get that $.

 

There is a piece of the puzzle missing here, what has your trade partner said about the lost box and what is next?

IMHO if the box breaks along the way, that is on sender to replace as they may have done a bad packing job. Lost by the carrier is another story, not sure that sender is responsible, but I can see where it would be on sender to replace the box. Personally if I knew a box was sent to me and lost by the carrier, I wouldn't make the sender replace the whole box, it is bad luck for both of us, not just sender. Maybe you split the responsibility and work it out that way. In the spirit of a being a beer advocate and trader, I would hope both parties can work together and determine what is fair. Trading is not about accounting for every last ounce of beer, it is about hopefully making long last relationships that are more about sharing beer then just a transaction between two people.

 

Sorry, I just disagree...if the receiver does not get his package, its on the shipper to make it right...I know there are many circumstances..But that is just the way I feel..Now if it was delivered and stolen, well that is where things get iffy to me...

 

I traded for a Sucaba & a Velvet Merkin from a new trader on the west coast. The situation was such that he needed the beers from me for a certain date, so I agreed to ship as soon as his UPS tracking # was in the system as trackable.

I shipped, he got his beers from me on the date he needed them, and UPS claimed my package was "delivered," but there was no package!

He agreed to ship a replacement box (luckily he had the 2 beers in question and it didn't put him out too badly), and THEN the missing package ALSO arrived.

I sent him another box of beer as a thank you for being stand up.

But yes, it's on the SHIPPER to make sure you get your beers, UPS and/or Fedex screw-ups don't change that.

 

isn't that basically the same thing as someone stealing a package? If UPS accepts liability and issues a refund, then how can the sender be responsible too? The refund should go to the recipient, but I feel like that's the extent you are really liable for as a sender. Like I said, the move is obviously to replace the package, but I don't think the sender should be out 2x as much beer and shipping cost as the other person just because UPS screwed up.

 

That's the risk of trading. If shipper knows there is alcohol in the box, no one is getting a refund.

I am bringing this up with any new trader. If they don't go along with the "rules of the game", we aren't trading. I have spent considerable amounts of money trading, and some of that was me re shipping for lost boxes.

Oye...

 

Yup, I hate asking, but I do everytime. If you have no trade history HERE ON BA, you ship first. That way all the things that can happen along the way (lost packages, damaged/missing bottles, etc.) will be known before I send any beer.

 

Sad thing is you should not have to mention this shit. Makes me nuts.

 

You're not making a distinction between lost box and confiscated box, and I think they are two very different situations. How can the shipping co know there is alcohol in a missing box?

 

Lost or confiscated, guy shipping is still responsible.

As far as whether the shipping co knows alcohol is in the box, that is up to the shipper(trader)to decide what to say when Fedex asks what is in the lost box. If they say booze, goodbye refund and they may or may not get the beer back if found. If they say it was something else, eg car parts, then a claim can be filed and a refund will be issued. But if the box is found, shipping co won't have to ask what's in there...they are opening it for sure.

The above is a bit rambling... I'm dog sitting and posting at once.

 

And if a refund is ever issued, that mitigates losses for guy shipping. So if that happens, he is really only out one package.

 

This is the way it has been since I have been on BA, period. Until the box is marked as delivered by FedEx/UPS then it is shippers responsibility to replace the box if lost or confiscated. If it is delivered and then goes missing (stolen) from someones porch then that is on the recipient, reason being they should have requested a signature upon delivery if they know that is a risk in their area. Though I think most people would send another box with at least something to help out in that situation to make it right.

At the end of the day just communicate with your trading partner to find a solution that makes both parties happy. And to reiterate what others have said do not drink your beer until both parties receive their boxes, especially if the bottles cannot easily be replaced. It's easy enough to send a box back if you cannot replace the beer you shipped out.

 

I cannot friggin' believe this is up for debate.

People, IT'S ON YOU AS THE SHIPPER TO MAKE SURE THE RECIPIENT GETS HIS/HER BEER, end of fucking story.

 

I was waiting for somebody to be more polite than I was going to be. Thanks Mark.

 

This is why I don't touch a box until the other person confirms mine came without issue. This way if it's beer I can't replace I just send the box back to them at my cost.

 

Bottom line is that the shipper is responsible for the box until it's delivered. As the sender I control how it's boxed, masking of liquid sloshing sounds & what company I choose to send through so until it says delivered then I am on the hook. If a box is lost or damaged then that is on me.

Once it says delivered through Fedex/UPS then I consider my responsibility over (as long as nothing broke) so if you're worried about someone stealing your box off of the porch then have it delivered elsewhere or have it held so you can pick it up at the facility. I've not encountered this yet so I'm not 100% sure what I would do if it does

 

Personally, I wouldn't ASK either and would probably suggest that he/she covers 1/2 the loss and I'll take 1/2. However, I personally on my end I WOULD replace a package that is lost by the shipping company, though wouldn't mind my trading partner consider splitting the loss at his own offering. What I don't want is to force my trading partner to return my beer. Something about it, while fair, just seem awkward. It's punishing enough that my partner lost the box and now he's not going to get the beer he really wanted. I guess I don't mind taking the loss.

For me, breakages and confiscation are full responsibility of the sender. Lost packages though fall into the understanding between the traders, as clearly there are differences in when it should be replaced from different people in this thread. Why not communicate this ahead of time to each other after you agreed on a trade? Risks go both ways and expectations should be the same from both traders. Now I'm thinking to add "lost packages options" into my profile and let new trading partner choose.

1. Sender is responsible for 100% of box, replacing the content or equivalent, until the box is marked delivered regardless of what happened (lost/damaged/confiscated) until then. Receiver must request signature delivery or be fully responsible for package after it is marked delivered.

2. Sender is responsible for 100% of box, replacing content or equivalent, if box is damaged and/or confiscated. If box is lost by shipping company, sender is responsibles for 50% in monetary value if claim is unsuccessful or 100% if claim is successfully.

3. Do not open until both boxes are received safely. Sender of lost/damaged/confiscated box must return the other trader's box at own shipping cost.

Too much? Thoughts?

 

Your thoughts on this problem seems the most sensible to me. I think both parties are aware that there is an intrinsic risk involved with shipping alcohol. If a package is lost by a carrier I think it would be fairer that both parties split the loss unless it was a failure of packaging the contents properly on the part of the sender. I wouldn't want a person I was trading with to have to carry the brunt of the loss due do a carrier losing a package. Sometimes shit happens and it's not really the fault of either party.