Fränkischer Pils Mischkasten

Discussion in 'Germany' started by boddhitree, May 8, 2014.

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  1. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    I bought a Fränkischer Pils Mischkasten (Franconian Pils Mixed Case) from hier-gibts-bier.de a little while back and I've never gotten around to try any of them, let alone report on them. I've had one or two already, but I'll start this today, trying to report and drink one for the foreseeable future. All of these beers are from the Franken area, so I'm sure they'll all be pretty good. It costs 28.99€ for 20 bottles, which works out to 1.45€ per bottle.

    [​IMG]

    I'm posting only pics of the bottle, not of the beer in a glass. Hey, this is Pils, and it's all gonna be golden yellow, right? I'll only post glass pics if it looks unusual or exceptionally pretty, which I doubt will ever be the case.

    The first for today is Reh-bier Pils from Privatbrauerei Reh from Lohndorf/Bamberg. Reh means "deer." As usual, a very boring and sleepy label. Notice the best buy date is a few weeks ago. Ooops.
    [​IMG]

    Appearance: clear golden yellow under a snow white head.

    Aroma: Very strong, a bread Pils malt and a hint of citrus. No hops in the aroma.

    Flavor:
    In the front, a decent bitterness kick, not too much but it's noticeable. You can taste fresh Noble hops mixed in a tart flavour.
    In the middle, more of the same with tart and bitterness, with a slightly sweet Pils malts on the side edges of the tongue.
    In the back, more tartness mixed with sweet Pils malt flavor or a tad caramel but leaning more towards bready.
    Aftertaste, all sweet Pils flavor.
    Mouthfeel: typical Pils, not too thick and not too thin, but it has the heft of a good German beer. 4.9%
    Overall, a nice beer to start this series. Not too sweet, though there's Pils malt sweetness present, not too bitter and a decent tartness all mixed in. Far and away better than any Fernsehbiere but not as good as Faust, Kneitinger, or Mahrs. A strong 4 from 5.

    Even though it took me a few months to get around to drinking it, it still tastes as fresh as if I'd opened it from the brewery. I don't think age damaged it at all, you think?
     
  2. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Fraenkische pils is a strange thing to be marketing. Definitely not that area's stylistic forte. Still, very interested to watch your reviews unfold.
     
  3. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    I like the concept of the thread (and the concept of a pilsner mix-crate, wish we had those here), I will be keeping my eyes on it.
     
  4. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Oh, what the hell, I'll another one today. This is from the city of Bayreuth. Becher Bräu's Becher Pils. On the bottle it says "Oldest brewery-inn of Bayreuth."

    [​IMG]
    Again, you can see the best buy came and went March 30th. On their website, they say they have a Becher Kräußen Pils, which is unfiltered and naturally carbonated, damn.
    [​IMG]
    (from their website, but mine isn't deeper, more golden yellow.)

    Appearance: golden yellow under a huge never-ending snow white head of super fine bubbles.
    from their website: [Es]...zeichnet sich durch seinen feinem stabilen Schaum aus,... or "is distinguished by its fine stable head." Yep, 5 minutes on and it's still going strong.

    Aroma: Not as strong as Reh-Pils in the Pils malt area, but still quite malty, more toast in the aroma.
    Flavor:
    In the front, a hefty amount of Noble hops bitterness, but not overwhelming. Not super bitter but I'd put the IBUs up in high 30s to almost a 40, but that's just in the front of the tongue, mind you. I get a mild tartness, too, but hidden inside the bitterness, which isn't like American bitterness; rather, it's a milder, softer form.
    In the middle, more bitterness, some slight tartness again, but also an ever so slight hint of citrus. On the sides I get big bready, toast flavors mixed in with the bitterness.
    Now in the back I get the Pils malt flavors, but as bready, more sweet and it's not as pleasant as Reh-pils. There's a little more bitterness and some tartness, too.
    Aftertaste is almost verging on a slight tart/sour mixed with bitterness and tartness.
    Mouthfeel: your usual German Pils thickness but even with the strong bitter flavors and slight tartness, it's not dry.

    Overall: Less süffig but still pleasant. It's getting more and more tart, the more I drink this beer, but then I swish it around my mouth and have to say that bitterness is nice and pleasant. I like the bitterness, but they somehow dialed back the Pils malt flavors. A 3.6 from 5.
     
  5. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Turns out, the Pils-fairy granted my wish to try the Becher Kräußen Pils, for I had it in my possession all the time and didn't realize it!

    [​IMG]
    Appearance: golden yellow under a huge never-ending snow white head of super fine bubbles. It's clear as a bell, totally like a filtered beer; however, the bottle possesses a great deal of yeast sediment, so yes, it's truly unfiltered and likely conditioned post fermentation, eh?

    [​IMG]
    (I know I said I wouldn't do pics of the beers in glass for this series, but I'm just itchin' to show off my Cantillon taster glass.)

    Aroma: lots of toasty, Pils malt aroma, quite aromatic, but only a hint of hops in the background.

    Flavor:
    Up front: mmm... not much but tartness and a nice but smooth bitterness.
    Middle: Pils malt flavors but also a much stronger bitterness settling on the tongue here with some more tartness. The sides of the middle is where the first sweetness of toasty, slight caramel Pils malt takes the fore, but with continued bitterness of a Noble hop. Again, this feels like a 30+ IBU beer, which I'm digging.
    Back: Same as the regular Pils - "I get the Pils malt flavors, but as bready, more sweet and it's not as pleasant as Reh-pils. There's a little more bitterness and some tartness, too." The bitterness quality is quite strong and leads to a very refreshing flavor that mixes with the expected sweet Pils malts flavor.
    Aftertaste: Tartness, bitterness mixed with toasty, sweet Pils malt qualities making a comeback.

    Mouthfeel: Same as above for the regular Pils - "your usual German Pils thickness but even with the strong bitter flavors and slight tartness, it's not dry."

    Overall: It's basically the same as their Pils, only all the flavor components are stronger and feel more vibrant, especially the bitterness aspect. Despite my seeming focus on bitterness, it's an extremely well balanced beer: very thick but still almost dry, bitter with enough Pils malt sweetness to not allow the former to overpower. Basically, if you like bitterness pushing and pulling you with your Pils malt sweetness, you'll love this beer. I like it, too. A 3.9 out of 5.
     
  6. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Not to be a Debbie Downer, but why didn't you get yeast back into suspension before pouring?
     
  7. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    The 2nd beer for today is from Brauerei-Gasthof Hartmann in Schesslitz-Würgau, teeny-tiny town east of Bamberg, or so Google Maps showed me. This is the Edelpils.

    [​IMG]

    Aroma: Typical Pils malts, quite strong, but not much else, pleasant and aromatic.
    Flavor:
    Front: Bitterness and tartness with some sweet Pils malt in the background, which is unusual I find.
    Mid: More bitterness and tartness with lots of Pils sweetness.
    Back: Again, more of the above with sweet Pils malts intermingled.
    Aftertaste: same as the taste, sweet Pils malts and bitterness and tartness.

    Mouthfeel
    : Same as above for the regular Pils.

    Overall: mmm, it's hard to rate. Tastes good, but nothing special. Extremely pleasant and balanced, but I find it's leaning more toward the bitter side vs. malt sweetness, which I like. Yet again, 4 Pils in 2 days and I'm already getting bored... :wink:

    Actually, never thought of that, especially since I'm not fan of yeasty flavors in my home-brew.
     
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  8. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    I've only had a handful of unfiltered pilsners (those who call themselves Kräusenpils at least) and they have all been cloudy. I personally enjoy a yeasty brew, to each his own!
     
  9. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Don't think I ever drank the pils when I went out to Hartmann/Würgau. Always stuck to the Felsentrunk or the Erbschaenk 1550. As for the yeast, I am not a fan of having the sediment in my beer (except for Kellerbier, Hefeweizen, and Witbeer); tends to severely muddle the flavors IMO.
     
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  10. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I feel the exact same way. At least in Belgian beers and some local pale ales/IPAs that are unfiltered. I pour the yeast for the last 1/3rd of the beer and it ruins the clarity of the beer. The yeast isn't dominating like hops are in an IPA, but it makes it's presence felt enough to dial back some of the flavors I enjoy in my beer. I stopped pouring the yeast in for all but hefeweizens and witbiers as well.
     
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  11. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I believe this is the flavor I was attempting to convey in my "German styles in the US" thread when describing Weihenstephan's pils. I guess for my personal descriptions, when I think "bready" and "toasty" I think of amber Marzens and Maibocks. I could describe it as bready, but it's sweeter, almost graham cracker-like. Anyways, I know pils malt when it's done right, I simply have a hard time describing it. And I certainly know what "honey" is in a German beer when it's oxidized, because it sucks.

    Don't mean to hijack your thread, but your descriptions of the bitterness, and sweetness of these pils you're sampling mirrors my experiences, I thoroughly enjoy reading these reviews. I would do unspeakable things to get a pilsner mix pack here in the US. But that has about as much of a chance of happening as waking up tomorrow next to Blake Lively.
     
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  12. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    While I don't like mixing the yeast from bottle-conditioned beers into the beer, I do like to swirl the last bit in the bottle and drink the "shot" of yeast separately. Supposed to be good for you or something.... :wink:
     
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  13. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    If I'm on a date and I don't like her I'll take a quick shot of yeast. That typically ensures there won't be a second date.
     
  14. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Maybe I need to explain my terms better. For me as a homebrewer, the terms of different malts are super distinct, by which I mean a malt leans to me flavor profile, and if you don't know it, I'm hard pressed to define it better.

    Bready = I'm imagining German bread, not marshmallow American white bread. I'm thinking of of the smell you get when you walk past a bakery of where fresh Brötchen are wafting out.

    Toasty= toast is easy, pop in any bread and smell, that's it, preferably German bread that lingers almost to a burnt quality, but not quite, leading into Umam territory.

    Pils malt flavor = it's sweet but not at all caramel-like. It's more a sweetness of bread mixed with a light honey drizzle, but without tastng a honey flavor. I know that doesn't make sense, but try it. Can be overpowering without some form of Sauermalz (Acid malt) or bitterness. I've never brewed a successful Bottom fermented beer, so I'm not sure how the tartness of a Pils is achieved, but I doubt it's only done with hops.

    Münchner malt = caramel and more, almost overpoweringly sweet if not tempered with some hops or way to raise the tartness of a beer. A Märzen is a typical style where you see this happen. Alone, it's sickly sweet and almost unbearable unless you're 3 years old.

    Noble hop flavor = bitter but not in your face, a little grassy, a little floral, a little hay-like, but more like a foundation when used well. Be not had had a beer that was too bitter from Noble hops. Usually this is Spalter, Tettnanger or Hallertauer, or at least they came from these regions. Germans use the word herb to define a bitterness in beer, which comes near the idea of spiciness, like black pepper, and that's kind of where I'm thinking when I say "bitter," spicy but not peppery or chili-like. Suck on a raw Noble hop and you'll get it.

    Tartness = not lemony, but tart. Not citrusy, but more like one of those sour candies kids like today.

    I'm not sure how the brewers in Germany achieve (Steve? Scott? Jack? Anyone?). I'd use Sauermalz but it's not at all from Brett. yeast.

    Are there any descriptors I've left out? If so, tell me and I'll what I can come up with.
     
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  15. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but a Kräusenpilsner is an unfiltered lager, maybe a bit hoppier and older than a proper pilsner, and is supposed to be cloudy.
     
  16. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Sure, that's true if it's been bottled last week or shaken up recently, but my homebrew, bottle conditioned, after 4 to 6 weeks lagerzeit is usually clear as a bell, unless I get super protein haze cloudiness. Whether its hoppier or not is a different question, I think. Ask Matt Riggs from Faust… he knows more here than me. (how do you tag people? I still haven't figured it out.)
     
  17. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Tag people by using @ sign and then start spelling his (or her) name.
     
  18. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Tony, I enjoyed reading your post. You are much more talented than I am with words. Permit me make some comments relative to what you posted:

    “Bready = I'm imagining German bread,..” That is exactly what I associate with the descriptor of “bready”. In my words I would state: dark bread. Something like pumpernickel but not exactly like pumpernickel. A beer that has a bready aspect to it is Hacker Pschorr Oktoberfest. I really like that aspect in that beer.

    “Toasty= toast is easy, pop in any bread and smell, that's it, preferably German bread that lingers almost to a burnt quality,” Yep, I agree 100% with that one.

    “Pils malt flavor…” I absolutely know and recognize Pilsner malt when I smell and taste it. I understand why some folks might use the word “sweet” wrt Pilsner Malt but to my palate the descriptor of “sweet” just does not fit. I really wish I could come up with a ‘generic’ word to describe Pils malt flavor but the best I have is Pils malt aroma/flavor. I had a draft Sly Fox Pikeland Pils last night that absolutely popped with German Pilsner Malt aroma/flavor (plus noble hops). You made mention of “tartness” wrt German Pilsners but this is a quality that I personally cannot relate to. I can’t think of any German style Pilsners that I have tasted where the descriptor of “tartness” would come to my mind. As regards how tartness is achieved in a beer, a feature of a beer that could lend tartness to a beer is if a particular beer had a lower than normal pH. A typical pH for a non-sour beer is around 4.0. I have never read any discussion that German Pilsner have a pH lower than 4.0. Sour beers will have pH values between 3-4 with the lower pH (e.g., 3.2) representing beers that are more sour.

    “Münchner malt = caramel and more, almost overpoweringly sweet if not tempered with some hops or way to raise the tartness of a beer,” The flavors that I typically perceive in a Munich Malt heavy beer (e.g., amber colored Oktoberfest) is a combination of bready/toasty/subtle caramel. I typically perceive more bready/toasty in comparison to caramel. In some Munich Malt heavy beers I will also perceive a little bit of toffee as well.

    “Noble hop flavor = bitter but not in your face, a little grassy, a little floral, a little hay-like,…” The class of flavors I typically get from Noble hops is a combination of herbal/spicy/floral. Depending on the hop used (or combination of hops used) and sometimes the format of the hop (pellet vs. whole), my palate will register varying levels of spicy/herbal/floral. In my homebrewed Bohemian Pilsner (which is solely late hopped with Czech Saaz pellets), the flavors of spicy and herbal is dominate. In a fresh Victory Prima Pils I pick up more floral (but with time in the bottle the floral aspect diminishes and the beer is more spicy/herbal); I think the more floral in fresh Prima Pils is because they use whole hops. I personally have not perceived “grassy” from Noble Hops but this must be fairly common to beer drinkers since I have seen this descriptor used by others.

    “Tartness = not lemony, but tart. Not citrusy, but more like one of those sour candies kids like today.” Yeah, I personally do not register “tartness” in German Pilsners.

    “Are there any descriptors I've left out? If so, tell me and I'll what I can come up with.” Another descriptor that my palate sometimes registers in German Pilsners is a biscuity quality. I recognize that the word “biscuity” and “bready” could be very similar but for me I associate “bready” with dark breads while “biscuity” is an aroma/flavor I associate with white flour biscuits. I don’t typically taste “biscuity” in German Pilsners but it does happen from time to time.

    Cheers!

    Jack
     
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  20. MattRiggs

    MattRiggs Crusader (451) Dec 1, 2012 Illinois

    I'm a bit confused over the whole "krausen/keller/landbier/zwickel" thing myself. It seems like breweries are using these terms interchangeably for unfiltered, bottom fermenting beers. These beers tend to range between 100% pils malt to 50% pils, 50% munich. Personally, I don't care for the unfiltered, bottom fermenting beers with 100% pils malt. I think a modest percentage of munich malt helps to balance the yeast's impact on the beer's flavor. The pils only beers of this style taste perpetually "young".

    I doubt that any of these beers are bottle conditioned. Bottom fermenting yeasts tend to throw off quite a bit of sulfur during peak fermentation. I find it more likely that the typical krausening process (10% young beer added with spund valve bleeding off excess pressure) is used. This would still result in a fine layer of yeast on the bottom of the bottle as there is still a fair amount of yeast in suspension upon bottling.
     
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