1885 article on Berliner Weisse

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Crusader, May 11, 2014.

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  1. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    Found an article on Berliner weisse from 1886 (pages 849-852 in the journal) which I thought I'd post here before I lose track of it again. It is interesting I think since according to the article:

    "As has already been mentioned, Berliner Weissbier is brewed with 12% balling on average. Only the March beer, so called, because it is brewed in March, has a wort of 15 to 16 percent balling."

    "The weissbier attenuates very strongly, since it is common with only 4-4.5 percent balling remaining, sometimes, after a stormy fermentation in particular, even less."

    I thought it was interesting to see such a relatively high stammwürze of 12% for a style which is commonly thought of as being lower gravity than other styles of beer.

    Of mashing it says:

    "To start with it is noted, that in the many Berliner weissbier breweries they work with different mashing methods, and that a good beer can be produced with all of them. One mashes in cold, and sticks to three mashes, the other mashes in warm, and also uses three mashes, or settles for two mashes, the third holds the kettlemash to be the most advantageous. From this can be seen, that the type of mashing for the production of Berliner Weisse is of less importance, than is commonly assumed."

    The article goes on to say:

    "In the most important weissbier breweries in Berlin the not so finely ground malt (one part barley and three parts wheat) through the premash, is mashed in thick with cold water and very gradually brewed, until the temperature of 48 degrees is reached. In the remaining kettle which is filled to a third or half with boiling water the hops are added and boiled for half an hour. For 100 parts malt is used, depending on the quality, between 2/3 and 3/4 parts hops, half Altmärker (from Gardelegen), half Bavarian or good Posener (from Neutomischel). After the hop boil comes the first mash (not thick, but lautermash) into the kettle, it is cooked together with the hop water, so it hochwallt (highwalls(?)) for a few minutes, and is slowly drained to the mash tun, until, under continuing mashing, the temperature is raised to 60 degrees. Then the first thick mash is drawn, like the lautermash cooked for 5 minutes, and the mash in the tun thus brought to 69 degrees. After the two thick mashes have been cooked, mashing is finished at 75 degrees. After between 45 minutes to one hour of rest is the mash lautered and the wort pumped onto the coolship.

    I'm hoping that those with home brewing experience can make some sense out of this description, if you can understand my translation that is.

    Would it be possible to calculate the abv and degree of attenuation from the aformentioned 12% balling wort strenght and what I'm assuming is the extract of 4-4.5% balling? I'd be curious to see what it would be.
     
    #1 Crusader, May 11, 2014
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
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  2. CleverHopPun

    CleverHopPun Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2014

    #2 CleverHopPun, May 11, 2014
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
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  3. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
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    Of fermentation:

    "In three days the main fermentation is done."

    "The after fermentation takes place in bottles or stone pots. A quarter of young beer is added. If the beer is to keep for longer and become bottle matured later, half as much young beer is used. After 8 to 14 days it is drinkable, but it keeps well for 4 to 6 weeks in cool cellars, the March beer keeps for a year even, but tastes by then strongly wine-sour."
     
  4. WhatANicePub

    WhatANicePub Zealot (712) Jul 1, 2009 Scotland

    Interesting stuff, especially about the mashing regime.

    In more modern times Berliner was classed as a “Schankbier” so the gravity couldn’t exceed around 8º without the risk of ending up in a different tax bracket.

    But in the 1930s there was still a stronger version of Weisse being occasionally brewed with a gravity of 16–18º Plato, Imperial Berliner Weisse as the kids would say nowadays. This beer was said to be best after a year of bottle aging.
     
  5. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    Very interesting. Andreas Bogk published a manuscript from the brew master of Groterjan-brewery, which he wrote in 1947, but never published. It's very detailed and goes into depth of the different sorts of Weisse they brewed back then. You can find it here.
     
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  6. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Great stuff, thanks for posting. Looks like all the Berliner Weisse brewers had different techniques, unlike how some BA's portray the style's tradition. Apparently one of the three cited may even not have used decoction, "...the third holds the kettlemash to be the most advantageous."
     
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  7. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    *Sigh.* Please point out where I ever said all Berliner Weisse brewing involves decoction. (Matter of fact, I don't think I ever mentioned decoction in the context of Schultheiss's process at all, but it is interesting to see that some brewers did, in fact, use it.) And, yes, while there were various traditional methods for brewing the style, all of them are considerably more complex that those being employed by U.S. "craft" brewers. I'd be thrilled to see a U.S. "craft" brewer employ any of these....
     
  8. 4DAloveofSTOUT

    4DAloveofSTOUT Grand Pooh-Bah (4,064) Nov 28, 2008 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I have been on a huge berlinner wiesse beer kick for the past year. This is all really interesting to reading about! The history of beer styles that are some of my personal favorites are always interesting to learn all the in's and out's about those styles! Thanks for the interesting read OP!
     
  9. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Great example of märzen as a process before it became a "style."
     
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  10. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    The point, of course, is that each brewery makes a style they enjoy to make and that their customers enjoy to drink.

    There are no correct ways of brewing a beer, even though there are those who insist there are, no right and wrong. It is, and always has been, an ongoing experiment in making a style to meet the expectations of the brewer and the customer base. Crusader documents there were many roads to get there, with major differences in amount of wheat and how the mash was done. And your comment about a "complex process" is a ludicrous remark in the face of this info., e.g., I used to have to write on paper with a pen, now I write with a word processing program and computer screen, therefore, according to you, the words I now write aren't as good as they could be if I started to use a pen again.

    The fact that you don't enjoy any American version you so far have tried means nothing to the rest of us who are loving the many delicious versions we drink, and the fact that there were many, constantly changing "traditional" ways to brew a beer that customers enjoy to drink means everything to the rest of us, both in Germany back then, and America now.

    Perhaps I have this wrong, and you will explain how it isn't just about your fond memories and longing for a remembered beer?
     
    #10 cavedave, May 12, 2014
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  11. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,471) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Do not some even call this "style" a sour? Though I sort of think of Belgium for sours, I guess its not locked to 1 area.
    GOSE is sour to me also. yea and salty...

    Can you even try to image making beer before knowing was was really going on in the beer, it must have been like magic....one book I just was reading said in 1 culture the used to place the "boiling" beer next to the others so it COULD teach it how to boil....lol. of course all beer was magically taught to boil....

    better known as fermentation of course. :grinning:

    thanks for the post!
     
  12. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    It is interesting that it says that if young beer isn't available for bottle conditioning, sugar can be used instead. But by doing so there is a risk that the beer will have a higher stammwürze than the tax bracket for schankbiere allows (7-8%), and in the beginning of the chapter on Berliner Weisse the stammwürze is given as 8%, which just so happens to be the upper limit for schankbier after 1950 (and apparently already in place by 1947).

    Here's a brief description of the changes made to the German beer tax system since 1919 (numbers denote stammwürze, i.e original gravity in plato):
    1919
    Einfachbier up to 4.5%
    Vollbier 8-13%
    Starkbier 13%

    1922
    Einfachbier up to 5.5 %
    Schankbier 8–9%
    Vollbier 9–13%

    1936
    Einfachbier - 3-6.5%
    Vollbier - 11-14%
    Starkbier - 16%

    1939
    Einfachbier 3-6.5%
    Lagerbier 9-10.3%

    1950
    Einfachbier 2-5.5%
    Schankbier 7-8%
    Vollbier 11-14
    Starkbier 16%

    As can be seen in 1919 the brewers of Berliner weisse could brew a beer of between 8-13% stammwürze and still remain in the same tax bracket, but in 1922 schankbier of 8-9% stammwürze gets a lower tax than beer of 9-13%. By the 1930s the vollbier class (by then set at 11-14%) made up 95% of the beer produced in Germany, and beer with a stammwürze of between 6.5-11% required a special permission to brew. Then in 1950 the entire span between 8-11% becomes a legislative black hole lasting until 1992.
     
    #12 Crusader, May 12, 2014
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
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  13. BannerBeer

    BannerBeer Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2012 Massachusetts

    Is there an english version of this available?
     
  14. CWGeorge

    CWGeorge Initiate (0) May 12, 2014 New York

    Could 'high wall' be the hot break when the beer jumps?
     
  15. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Actually, my desire to see brewers (U.S., German, or otherwise) employ as many of the traditional processes as possible stems more from my own homebrewing experience. If there's one thing I have learned from brewing, it's that process -- and not equipment, experimentation, etc. -- produces great beer. When attempting to brew the beers I love, I have found it is of paramount importance to dial in my process by learning from the originators/protectors of those processes if I hope to get anywhere close to my goals -- with my goals being to create classic German styles that, while not clones of the originals, would fit more or less seamlessly in with the culture that produced that style. If one believes in, and chooses to commercially market a beer as belonging to, a certain accepted style, it becomes IMO all the more important to understand and employ the process(es) that was/were developed by the originators. Why? Because IMO beers brewed this way taste better. But maybe that's just me. As you correctly point out, if enough people enjoy the taste as is, something about the beer must be "good." It's just an unending source of astonishment to me that this perspective -- which would seem better suited to mass-produced, processed food/drink -- has somehow become the mantra of something calling itself "craft" beer.
     
    #15 herrburgess, May 12, 2014
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
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  16. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Never mind that it can be (and often is) better with a little research and development.
     
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  17. unterhopft

    unterhopft Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2008 Minnesota


    Great stuff, and your translation makes perfect sense. Of the three mash schedules, one starts off with a protein rest while the second one doesn't. Both of these are decoction mashes, while the third doesn't use decoction at all. These differences could all be the result of the equipment and raw materials that each brewery had to work with, and as was pointed out, didn't really matter in the end product as they were all able to produce a high quality beer. I thought the part about boiling hops in water and using that to raise the temperature of the beer was interesting too. This was a necessity since the beer was never boiled prior to transfer to the coolship, and that would have added the small amount of bitterness and preservative qualities of the hops to the beer. The high residual extract in the finial beer definitely indicates that the Berlin brewers were working with very poor quality/highly under modified malt. This is probably the biggest difference between modern interpretations of Berliner Weisse, and the ones described in this article. These beers probably were no where near as sour as what we see today- at least the ones served fresh, which is probably how most of it was consumed. In your second post talking about fermentation- the beer was finished in 3 days, which is fast, but not that abnormal for a ale fermentation. When lacto is used as part of a mixed culture with an ale yeast, the yeast will actually out compete the lacto for simple sugars, resulting in a fairly mildly acidic beer. 8-14 days to condition and then it was served and drank fresh. It mentions that it keeps for 4-6 weeks in a cool cellar- the high amount of residual sugar would have been plenty of food for the lacto and brett to work on, which is why it needed to be kept cool. This would have kept the micro activity and sourness to a minimum. The high amount of residual extract would have been a fair amount of sweetness that was probably nice with a little sourness. Over time though, as it continued to ferment in the bottle, it would have became drier, more sour, and highly carbonated, which is probably closer to what we associate it with today.
     
  18. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    I wouldn't interpret that to mean that the beer is "finished" after 3 days, only that primary fermentation is done then. Also, the passage mentions that after 8-14 days the beer is "drinkable," which I wouldn't interpret to necessarily mean it was typically served and drunk then (although I'm sure some places did do this). I believe the 4-6 weeks refers to a common maturation period, and not that the beer will simply "keep" for this long. Of course I am basing this on Schultheiss's processes, which Michael Jackson described as the "traditional and painstaking way" of brewing the style.
     
  19. tommyguz

    tommyguz Pooh-Bah (2,534) May 14, 2008 Pennsylvania
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    I feel obligated to tag @stakem
     
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  20. unterhopft

    unterhopft Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2008 Minnesota

    Yes, Mr. Burgess, Schultheiss was that last brewer of traditional Berliner Weisse. They did do an long, extended aging with their Weisse, but this article would pre-date the work that was done by Dr. Schönfeld on Berliner Weisse. Prior to his research, very little would have been know about bacteria and brettanomyces, and how they affected the beer. It wouldn't have been until after his research that brewers really understood what was going on with their beers. And when pure yeast and bacteria cultures became available to brewers, and they were able to control their fermentations, then the extended bottle conditioning would have probably come into favor because they understood that was how long it took the brettanomyces character to develop. Before that, and especially modern sanitation practices, the beers would have been contaminated with all sorts of other organisms other than just yeast and bacteria, which would have caused the beer to go bad in a relatively short amount of time.
     
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