Is all wild yeast still really wild?

AFAIK, all "wild"strains are bought from the usual handful of yeast suppliers. I don't know how the FDA would react to the use of true "wild" yeast.

 

pretty sure i heard one brewer tell me that they grab their brett from tree bark up in a river valley.

 

I would argue that beers which are brewed with yeast from the air are 'true' wild beers. We all know about the Belgian brewers who open their brewery louvers to brew Lambic beers.

More and more US breweries are installing coolships and permitting the yeast from the air to ferment the beer. One example is Allagash and their beer Coolship Cerise.

Cheers!

 

I think it depends on the brewery. Some ferment their beers in standard fermenters and known bugs are pitched, some breweries use open-top fermenters, coolships, etc. in a controlled environment with known bugs in the air, and maybe some keep the windows open to see what they get, although likely a degree of certainty of what bugs are in the back yard.

 

Just tried a true wild yeast done with brett and friends cultured from green apples. Sometimes you get really lucky with capturing yeast, this time they did, it was done with a kolsch wort and secondaried with the green apple bugs, delish.

Lots of great info out there on the new movement in USA to capture great wild yeasts, including a petri dish will only accomodate brett, IIRC from the articles.

Had the pleasure of visiting Peekskill Brewery's coolship yesterday.

 

Brett is one thing. Open fermentation where you leave it open to your terroir is quite another.

 

A wolf born in the zoo has never lived in the wild but still has all the physical characteristics of a wolf.

 

Historically domestication has also meant selective breeding. A wolf raised in captivity reverts to the wild behavior of wild born wolves quite readily.

 

All yeast changes over several generations which is why the labs typically keep a stock of the original strain and produce their samples from the original stock. Some breweries do this for themselves with their house yeast if they are making enough money to have their own lab and technicians.

 

Jester King.

 

This is akin to leaving your keys in the car in a downtown area and saying it has been spontaneously stolen.A brewery environment is pervaded with the house strain.

 

Re stolen car, yes, good example, most auto thefts under those circumstances are in fact unplanned, spontaneous acts by the perpetrator. If you want something to happen spontaneously you "go" where it is most likely to happen to you.

And keep in mind that the brewery environment acquired its "patina" of micro organisms from the night wind bourne passage of micro organisms through that environment in the first place, so both sources of contemporary "contamination" play a role, not to mention things that may reside in used barrels and help things along.

 

BTW, the notion of "domestication" can be quite misleading in its effects in that many familiar creatures actually retain significant characteristics of their wild heritage. That purring house cat you may have spent time petting is also often a quite savage hunter/killer of small defenseless birds, baby squirrels, mice, etc. and will typically take its prey alive and then "play" with it, torturing and mutilating it mercilessly until it dies and is then eaten. Similarly quite "tame" family dogs in suburban areas allowed out at night have been known to gather and hunt in packs causing death and destruction of large livestock such as cows, etc., returning to their home and "owners" to be family pets during the day.

 

I agree with others above that the answer largely depends on the situation. A brewery that for the first time opens its coolships to the night air is fermenting with truly "wild" local yeast/microbes. The yeast will (relatively) quickly adapt (evolve) in this new environment, and if the brewery continues this practice, the character of the yeast will change to favor growth in a high alcohol/low nutrient environment their ancestors were never exposed to. Commercially available strains of Brett (Wyeast, White Labs, etc) that some breweries use to make "wild" ales were isolated fairly recently from breweries in which these strains have adapted/evolved for perhaps hundreds of years. I would not call these "wild" yeast.

 

This whole discussion reminds me of a recent posting on a thread about beers that sit on shelves for a long time:

The poster seems to imply that we can somehow influence prices as outsiders to the free market and that we are somehow not part of the free market.

Well I have a bunch of questions. Labeling organisms as wild or domestic is a convention. But what really does wild or domestic mean? Previous posts on this thread seem to assume that wild vs. domestic is black and white. Is that accurate or are we just one big ecosystem where wild and domestic are the same and we are all part of the "wild"? What does calling them wild vs. domesticated buy us here for the purposes of this discussion?

 

Some people like to say there is confusion here when there really isn't. In the brewing industry, the word "wild" is used to indicate the presence of Brett and/or bacteria. Lambic style beers done in coolships are called "spontaneously fermented." Yes, one could say that the word "wild" should only be used to describe spontaneously fermented beers, but then what word would we use to describe other beers with Brett and/or bacteria? Propose a suitable alternate name and I will jump on board with you and oppose the use of the term "wild" henceforth.