Second Pitching Rate Experiment: Results

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by phattysbox, Mar 2, 2012.

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  1. phattysbox

    phattysbox Initiate (0) Apr 18, 2008 New York

  2. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Savant (1,207) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Ive overpitched a number of times and agree with the final bit -- if you want a dry beer and to never use that yeast again, its worth doing. Lots of great stuff you had there. Thanks for posting.
     
  3. goodbyesoberday

    goodbyesoberday Initiate (0) May 12, 2005 Australia

    Great reading, especially since I have some experience with 3522.

    Particularly I note the comments about phenolics, from time to time I do notice that 3522 produces some distinct phenolics that have a smoky / burnt rubber quality. I've generally noticed this with pitch rates that would be on the higher side of your control pitch rate (but not overpitched). And also notice this more strongly in scrapped slurry post-ferment.

    One suggestion for if you ever run an experiment like this again: Run a limit attenuation sample as well to determine exactly where the maximum final gravity should be (ie a grossly overpitched sample on a stir or shaker plate, though I would expect the under and overpitched samples have reached attenuation limit in this instance).

    Also agree that you would expect different results from different commercial yeast strains. Belgians are wild and crazy things, I'll bet you would get different results from english ale strains, lagers, hefe yeasts, etc. etc. Also agree with the notion that you won't notice so much difference from a boring strain like chico. Sorry, I mean workhorse.

    Good stuff. Well done.

    I love beer.
     
  4. Homebrew42

    Homebrew42 Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New York

    Nice article, thanks for sharing your results.
     
  5. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    Well that was first rate! I am glad the experiment went better this time.
    Those are some deep thoughts on yeast production and pitching rates.
     
  6. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    Thank you for your feed back. I would be interested to see if you get the same results from a more neutral yeast like WLP001,or WLP810.
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

  8. axeman9182

    axeman9182 Initiate (0) Aug 5, 2009 New Jersey

    Very interesting read. I've been thinking about intentionally underpitching when I brew a hefe later this spring.
     
  9. ElkSherpa

    ElkSherpa Initiate (0) Dec 26, 2008 Texas

    Many homebrew blogs are all over the place with information overload. I'm a first time reader and I must say you convey your results very clearly. Great article, great info.
     
  10. AleLovinRuskie

    AleLovinRuskie Devotee (337) Feb 10, 2009 Massachusetts

    Gotta agree with the group here - excellent article. Thanks for sharing!
     
  11. Prostman81

    Prostman81 Initiate (0) Sep 27, 2008 Illinois

    This is very interesting, thank you for taking the time to do this, and sharing with us here!
     
  12. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Very well done! Sir, you deserve a beer. I will definitely give more thought to my consecutive pitching regimes now.
     
  13. CASK1

    CASK1 Pundit (951) Jan 7, 2010 Florida

    Nice work! Looking forward to reading about your wild yeast collaboration.
     
  14. ahalloin

    ahalloin Initiate (0) Jan 3, 2008 Virginia

    Thanks for sharing that experiment. Very interesting stuff. I'm assuming you controlled for fermentation temperature in the experiment. Imagine what those 2 factors (pitching rate and ferm temp) mean to fruit esters, bitterness perception, and fusels in a beer. In the past I had wondered why large breweries are able to ferment ale yeasts at higher temps (low 70s) than homebrewers and not get crazy fruity esters. It probably stems from slightly overpitching their last yeast cake. It is of note that Jamil Z. advocates for erring on the side of underpitching for Belgian ales for the very reason of achieving more fruity and spicy esters. I suppose this would mean, to achieve a clean, bitter West Coast IPA, overpitching would be the way to go.
     
  15. phattysbox

    phattysbox Initiate (0) Apr 18, 2008 New York


    This is a great idea. Actually, this should probably be done for any new yeast strain anyone gets. However, I agree with you, it would be nice to know the upper ceiling of attenuation for the experiment. An internal control so to speak... :wink:
     
  16. phattysbox

    phattysbox Initiate (0) Apr 18, 2008 New York


    Well I tried WLP001 or Wyeast 1056 and the results were inconclusive. More inconclusive because I messed up the control beer - came out horrible.

    The experiment would be very interesting with a lager yeast in general. We'll see if I have time, or space, to do something like this.
     
  17. phattysbox

    phattysbox Initiate (0) Apr 18, 2008 New York


    HA! Yeah! After taking care of 7 month old, cooking dinner, trying to publish my research on HIV, sure! I got time! :wink:

    Seriously, I think it would be something very cool to do. I have absolutely no time to do. Sent you a BM BTW.
     
  18. phattysbox

    phattysbox Initiate (0) Apr 18, 2008 New York

    I did control the temps. They were at 69F and rose to 71F at peak activity. Buffered with water and ice packs to keep temps steady at 71F.

    Yup I agree ont he overpitch. Definitely seems plausible. However, there is a limit, as Garrett pointed out, until the cells become old and "battle scarred".

    In general, anything that increases yeast growth (as in my underpitch), lowers fusels but increases esters. This was mentioned in JZ's and Chris White's Yeast, but I see the opposite here. The under-pitched beer had higher fusels than the over-pitch according to the tasters.

    And yes, for my next IPA, I'm over-pitching
     
    ahalloin likes this.
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