Thoughts on 20 year old dregs

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Naugled, Jul 7, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    I have a bottle of this, which I believe to be a 1994 vintage.
    [​IMG]
    I'm thinking about trying to make a starter with the dregs to use in an upcoming saison I have planned. It is bottle conditioned (says on the label) but I have no idea if is conditioned with the primary yeast or some other strain like champagne.

    Is it worth the trouble to awaken from the dead? Is it too old? Is it just champagne yeast? Would anything in it even be viable after 20 years? Has any one had any success bringing some old dregs back to life?
     
  2. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    the age of the yeast should not matter. if this project is worth the time and effort is another question.

    yeast that have gone dormant for a thousand years or more can be cultured. there are stories every now and again of some ancient Greek boat that was brought up with wine bottles and the yeast was brought back to life.

    given that there are dozens of high quality yeast strains available for a few dollars, I don't see the merits of bringing this one back to pitching volume. if you can determine the strain in your bottle, can figure if it is the primary or bottle strain and if you think the yeast will make good beer, then go for it.
    Cheers.
     
  3. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Personally, I would go for it, but that's me. Start in about 10-20ml of 1.020 wort. Give it a week to wake up. Step up to 100ml, then 1000ml of 1.040 stirred. Run a test batch to see what character you get out of it.
     
    MrOH, skivtjerry, bgjohnston and 2 others like this.
  4. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    What jbakajust1 says . . . you'll probably only get one chance in your life for this and will be mad it you don't try it.

    And the name of your new brew is a natural: La Saison de Vingt Années Levure
     
    inchrisin and jivex5k like this.
  5. bgjohnston

    bgjohnston Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2009 Connecticut

    I would try it, as it is a rare opportunity. The investment in starter wort is small enough.
     
  6. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    ok, you've all convinced me. I'll give it a shot. I guess worse case is I make a batch of malt champagne.
     
  7. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    One thing I forgot to mention, and it is not necessary, but helpful. If you have a way to actually sterilize your tools and vials and such, go that route. I have a buddy who works in a lab and is able to autoclave the vials of starter wort for our experiments. I also have a pressure cooker to do the same thing at home. I also use a handheld torch to flame the lip of the bottle. I would StarSan the bottle top, open, flame, pour/decant, flame again, swirl, add dregs immediately to the previously sterilized vial of wort and recap it. Maybe do a couple vials just in case. The sterilizing step ensures that there is nothing in that vial of starter wort except the yeast you put into it. The yeast could take a week or so to wake up and you wouldn't want anything else in that vial with it that could wreck your starter during that lag time. Pour the dregs into the vials in a draft free area, under an open flame if you have the ability to. Again, this is not necessary, but helpful.
     
  8. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Thanks for the tips. Those are the types of techniques I was considering. I don't think this bottle was pasteurized so after 20 years there may be some unintended things growing in there. If Oldsock is lurking he may know, I think he has a good knowledge of what belgian breweries pastuerize. I was thinking of plating the dregs to see if I could isolate the yeast from what ever else might be in there. But if the beer tastes good I will most likely just create a starter with the bottle dregs.
     
  9. stakem

    stakem Grand Pooh-Bah (4,070) Feb 20, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Out of curiosity, have you tried this beer before to know that you like it enough to want to take the time/effort to recreate it? Or is this one of those crazy ideas where you wanna try it just to see what happens?

    I only ask because 2 years ago I drank a bottle of that same '94 vintage and oxidation aside, it was not good. There is some vinegar and acedic things going on in that brew and chances are its going to get amplified by your efforts and i doubt what you are going to culture will be remotely similar to the original.
     
  10. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Thanks, good input. I have not tried this particular beer, and I do expect it to be past it's prime. Sounds like I should be ready to plate the dregs to see what I might be able to isolate. Maybe I'll get lucky and pick out the original yeast strains.
     
    stakem likes this.
  11. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, if it tastes off (besides severe oxidation after 20 years) then I would go from the 10ml vial to a few plates to isolate. I would do the 10ml first to get the yeast woken up and active again so they will be hungry for the plates. The Cantillon strains that BK Yeast did (C1, C2, C3) were all flops when he tried simply plating the dregs straight. He was only successful to get proper growth for isolation after making a starter first then plating from that. We have had the same issues with some of our attempts at getting some Sacc strains from bottle, we do 10ml starter and plate from the bottle, then plate from the starter and the starter plates are always much better.
     
  12. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Also, what leads you to believe it is a 1994 vintage? From what I have been able to find 1995 had the wacky style label with the cartoon female jester that has evolved to the current labels. Was 95 the first year they used the new label style?
     
  13. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    1994 is written on the cap in marker, I'm assuming from the brewery, and from a couple of google searches. Other than that I haven't found much about it's born on date.
     
    jbakajust1 likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.